What version of leave is acceptable as leave?

Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by chippie244, Mar 26, 2019.

  1. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    Who's Baxi man?
     
  2. Vixere

    Vixere Active Member

    I get what you are saying, btiw2, and for something less important than this I would probably just shrug and have a wee chuckle at what I'd consider the charming silliness of some folk. The problem is, I have yet to be impressed by the reasoning of a Leaver on this issue, and I'm pretty darned sure that their main reasons are not charming. I'm meant to accept such a fundamental constitutional change to this wonderful country - one that I thank my lucky stars I was born in by pure chance - on the nasty whim of some self-deluded folk?

    Nope.

    And by continuing with a Brexit of any form, wouldn't that be very much defying the will of almost the same number as there were Leavers, and who would almost certainly be a majority if given the chance now?

    For those who shout "Let's have a third then!", I would ask at what point do even Leavers have to acknowledge that the tide has turned? I mean, if this Brexit takes another year, almost certainly the Remain majority would be a good few further %-age points higher still. Still not enough? What about 2 years? We ignore what is an obvious change in the voting pattern? We don't even allow the electorate to answer "Are you sure, now?!". We ignore the lies the lies the lies, and also the criminality of that campaign?

    We trudge on with this because we are scared, not because it is the right thing?

    I'm not concerned about violence either. What I suspect will happen should there be another ref with a different outcome, is that the vast majority of Leavers would simply slink away - possibly even issuing a small sigh of relief - and a few clusters of extreme right-wing idiots would cause trouble. And they should be hit very hard.

    Again becuase Remainers in general wouldn't cause any aggro in these circumstances - so we are meant to follow the whim of a deluded bunch because they have the added quality of being potential thugs?

    Double-nope.

    It is indeed an 'fin mess.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2019
  3. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    There's an example of constructive criticism if ever I saw one. Thank you.
    I was beginning to think that even though he'd removed himself from the 'sick man of Europe' the the sick man of Europe wasn't removed from him, and statistics had taken their toll.
    Alas, he still LIVES.
    Back to your one sided skimming critique, if we may for a moment;
    Maybe I should have paid more attention to the wise words of, George Carlin, or was it twain?
    I dunno, whoever it was they had a damn good point.
    Welcome back, DA.
    How's that interlink progressing.......?
     
  4. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    Possibly Trevor has developed a crack habit because this must be the ramblings of an addict.
     
  5. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    Thanks for the input, chopstick.
    You can get back to your 'love island' or 'Geordie shore' now.
     
  6. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    I have no idea what you are talking about, do you?
     
  7. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    I'm fine with the mild sarcasm and my prediction, which is probably based on hope, is that having rejected the only deal on offer and rejected no deal that revoking article 50 is the only option.
    The referendum has been proved to be corrupt and I will loose no sleep if it is ignored.
     
  8. Heat

    Heat Screwfix Select

    Actually your latest post has been a surprise to me.
    About half of it (the last paragraph) is absolutely spot on and astute.
    Very good points about the reality of the true links between Ulster and Scotland (and for that matter, rest of U.K.).
    And your backstop explanation is correct and very fair comment.
    I am (Scot decent) from NI,so can say that.

    The first part you are wrong though.
    Guess I will have to do my “rant” :)
    You made an error mentioning the “Housing Fraud scandal” - that is not correct. In fact you shocked me with that. That could be very misleading.
    Actually if you check the facts it has nothing to do with the DUP whatsoever.
    Who is committing the fraud, and taking benefits from several homes? Dissident Republicans (apparently) and others, of no connection to the DUP and not of their power to stop easily.
    Also note the NI Housing Executive didn’t deal with it and their employees and top people are from all backgrounds (although actually most are from Catholic community, especially in the top positions, I believe, but check that if you don’t believe me.)

    The DUP were not the ruling government in NI, so why would you think they are responsible for things that the other parties there fail to sort and also in the past from Westminister?
    (I think you are confusing it with the so called RHI scandal? Although that is also a nonsense).

    There wasn’t a sudden break down in trust in Stormont. That was mostly Sinn Fein spin. They played a game to achieve more votes, suddenly making a list of demands. Quite a story on that, and something that hopefully will be properly explained someday.
    Do not fall for what comes from SF. They are way ahead of any party or group in these islands on how to deceive.

    The talk of DUP links to Brexiters and also dirty money for Brexit is strange. The DUP have always been for us leaving the EU, no secret. Not sure how money would have made their Brexit campaign any better, and tbh they could do with some money funds to balance what massive funds Sinn Fein gets.

    You say “Sinn Fein support those members (who voted remain)”
    Well that is not true.
    Sinn Fein only say they support things to try to turn everything to their advantage.
    Do you not know that Sinn Fein is actually an anti EU party? Plenty of proof of that prior to Brexit vote. Gerry Adams has admitted in an interview his party SF are using it for mischief.

    On the point about the DUP not representing all Ulster in Westminister, - why should they in regards to Brexit, other than making sure that we keep open borders and no border in Irish Sea? What else would you expect?
    After all, people that voted for SF have no MPs in Westminster seats, so tough. Other parties are too small.

    Remainers in NI have an unfair advantage because they get 100% support from the Irish government, so I see no problem with the Leavers in NI (of all parties or religions) getting support from the DUP.

    It is hardly a crime to insist the backstop needs legal clarity.
    And I repeat that I believe many in NI, as in rest of U.K., will no longer be for Remain. Particularly from all the Unionist sides.

    Sad to read the words “DUP have been a blight on Ulster for many years”
    Got to say I totally disagree. As do the majority of the electorate. Even other voters agree with the DUP, which is something that often goes unheard.
    A blight on Ulster is the others who try to destroy Ulster or/and a large section of its people by every means possible, terrorism, propaganda, using “rights” as a Trojan Horse cover for smearing and discriminating against innocents.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
  9. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    Weird as it may seem in NI but in the rest of the UK differences between Christian sects is of nil interest, Islam and Judaism raises blood pressure but the difference between Catholics and Protestants is a big meh, most of England is agnostic at best.
     
    Vixere and Heat like this.
  10. BMC2000

    BMC2000 Active Member

    Lol @ "so called RHI scandal". It was another disaster, how many hundreds of millions squandered and counting? Some light bedtime factual reading here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_Heat_Incentive_scandal

    Lady Hermon did well stating that the DUP don't represent all of Northern Ireland's views this week, fair play. But I do agree with the DUP for not signing the deal but for other reasons, even Dodds has stated stated staying in the EU is better than May's deal. That says it all, us secretly the DUP know Brexit has opened Pandora's box and border poll dilemmas, staying in the EU ironically saves the Union as leaving could. Lead to a surprise border poll result, just like with Brexit
     
  11. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    Shall someone start an Irish thread so you can argue alone :):)
     
    gadget man and Heat like this.
  12. Heat

    Heat Screwfix Select

    I agree with you and understand that. In fact I hate that I have to use the words Protestants and Catholics because I know that seems daft to an outsider as supposedly both of the same faith.
    It really is a rights issue in NI which has never been fully resolved (and I am including most definitely also the rights for British people there).

    The real problem ahead in U.K. is more to do with Islam and Christianity I think.
     
  13. Heat

    Heat Screwfix Select

    Ahem! It is both British and Irish. :)
     
  14. Rachel H

    Rachel H New Member

    Any deal where we don't have to pay stupid money to the EU.
     
    Baxi Boy likes this.
  15. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    NI is in the UK not GB not that that is an issue.
     
  16. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    That would be the one we already have.
     
  17. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    That is nothing to do with the EU.
     
  18. Heat

    Heat Screwfix Select

    I doubt if Dodds is concerned. He rightly won’t sign a deal with the backstop.
    Disgraceful that some people in NI thought we should just sign and commit no matter the consequences.

    Lady Hermon is hardly worth a mention imo. Just one of the loners MPs.

    The RHI “scandal” isn’t quite what it was portrayed in media.
    The figures mentioned was if it had went full term uncapped.
    And the scheme was used by all people’s and promoted by all parties.
    But why would the media or indeed SF let facts get in the way of a good story?
    If it is fraud, - let someone prove it.
     
  19. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    BTW I think you're right on the border issue
     
  20. Heat

    Heat Screwfix Select

    I didn’t say it was.
    The only reason why religion was brought up earlier by me, was the usual religious divide in NI which is part of the EU remain or leave vote and mindset there.
    And so it drifted
     

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