What's all this FENSA b******s about?????

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by bighairybloke, Dec 6, 2004.

  1. bighairybloke

    bighairybloke New Member

    I normally lurk around in the sparky's forum as that's more my area of interest, but i've heard a few things that worry me slightly.
    Mainly that only FENSA people are allowed to fit replacement windows now. I used to work as a bench joiner, and have made and fitted all my own hardwood windows. Building control did not seem to have any problem with this.
    Is there any truth in this? If there is, it's a load of b****s!!!! The only possible time I can see there being any problem with anybody fitting a window is if they make the opening wider and leave the lintel sat on nothing, or fit a replacement lintel that's not big enough. Seeing as I'm probably better qualified than most FENSA people to do the structural calcs on the lintel, this seems a bit silly.
  2. bighairybloke

    bighairybloke New Member

    One other thing just came to mind. If you rip out a timber window that was load bearing and replace it with a crappy plastic one that's about as structural as a blancmange as supplied by most FENSA people, you could have big problems! Again, not a problem I will ever have. If I ever fit a plastic window, I will claim deminished responsibility due to insanity!
  3. Mr GrimNasty

    Mr GrimNasty Active Member

    Any windows/doors replaced up to April 2002 do not require BCO inspection/approval. After that date, if the entire door/window is replaced (i.e. not just glass, or frame repair etc.) BCO approval (about 70 quid)is required for DIY installations (FENSA installers automatically give approval). Part L (mainly) I think applies. You need safety glass in specified areas, effective means of escape, protection from falling, to prove your d/g units are efficient enough with regards to heat loss, lintels checked/suitable etc. etc. etc. Yes it's just another money making bs scam!
  4. Mr GrimNasty

    Mr GrimNasty Active Member

    I almost forgot ventilation (frame vents too). Although I believe that the wording is that in some respects the replacement windows should be no worse. You need to speak to your local building control officier because they vary in what they insist on.
  5. tonynoarm

    tonynoarm New Member

    You do not have to be FENSA registered to fit replacement windows. You can do it yourself and pay your local council (approx £65) who will do a site survey, give advice before you install, and then come back to ensure you have carried out the work in accordance with current regulations. Once you have paid the money the council will come back as necessary so you can fit replacements at your own leisure and have them checked as you go along.

    Upon completion the council will issue you with a certificate confirming conformance. This certificate should then be placed with the deeds of the house, as when you come to sell you will have to evidence you have met the regulations. Without it you can guarantee your buyers surveyor will knock the work and attempt to use it as a bargaining tool to reduce the house price.

    Hope this helps

  6. bighairybloke

    bighairybloke New Member

    Ah, so much the same as part P that's about to be dumped on the sparkys. Current project is a barn conversion, so have to have building regs cert on the whole lot anyway. Just need to convince them that the fee I paid them a couple of years ago included any inspections they now have to do :)
  7. Pugley

    Pugley Member

    Well, it had to happen to the carpenters one day........

    You cant do gas without CORGI
    You cant do electrics without Part P
    You cant do building without Part L
    You cant do wooden windows without FENSA

    And next will be Part W of the regs applied to all work carried out with wood. Brief details so far indicate that:-

    All wood must be organic and come from renewable sources.

    Certification will be required before wood can be cut or handled to ensure that it contains no hazardous substances and that it's growth has ceased.

    Creosote will become a banned substance and will need to be disposed of in the same way as asbestos sheds and garages.

    ALL exposed wood will need to be protected with at least 3 coats of varnish when on display in public places.

    Wood workers will need to join a trade association and will not be allowed to work until their tools have been assessed and a membership fee of £1,500 paid.

    I'm think of setting up a splinter group to fight the legislation - anyone interested?
  8. bodget&scarpers

    bodget&scarpers New Member

    2 friging rite,count me in, all these idiots only want 2 make lots of money(goverment included) and wot skills do these paper pushers av NONE,NOTHING,PARASITES.
    icant belive this once great country puts up with this rubbish.
  9. Sprocket

    Sprocket New Member

    You are right FENSA is a load of B****S.
    A couple of weeks ago I was helping a mate, who is FENSA registered do a whole house window replacement and also all roofline replacement.
    FENSA had contacted my mate to find out where he was working in order for them to come and do a spot check. However the FENSA rep turned up a day early, because he was in the area, and we had not started on the windows.
    "No problem" says the FENSA rep "I only need to check the glass anyway"
    So he gets his meter out and checks that the glass on the van is Pilkington K.
    Wasn't at all bothered about the windows. ie fire escape hinges, toughened glass etc.
    Oh no as long as it was PILKINGTON K he was happy.

    Not that there is any exchanges of brown paper bags on Sainsburys car park, stuffed full of £50 pound notes, between Pilkington and FENSA.
  10. barry

    barry New Member

    I'd be interested in joining Pugley's splinter group, except that under Part W splinters will only be allowed if they are pre-approved by BCO and big enough to cause enough pain to enable you to sue the client for negligence in allowing you to use dangerous wood. I w<u>oo</u>dn't want to do that to any of my nice customers.
    mr moose likes this.
  11. building control

    building control New Member

    The trouble was the amount of **** window firms fitting windows without enough ventilation or openings to escape from,
    the heat loss thing was tagged on the end, as an afterthought.

    has a call from fensa other day, to report someone for using thier name without being registered, turns out they were, just the thicko at fensa couldnt read/spell the name on the bill.
  12. gnattycole

    gnattycole New Member

    I'd join your splinter group too as I abhor the moneymaking con that all these associations represent. They provide little guarantee of quality and cost the small business excessive fees and admin hassle. The theory that they drive out the cowboys is also "B/S". I'm a qualified spark but as it's not my current line of business, I do not belong to NICEIC etc because it's not cost effective for the amount of projects I do these days. The aggro I had selling my last house was considerable, because I didn't have a "Safety Certificate" as insisted on by the purchasers solicitors. What I had was a "Periodic Inspection Report" which was carried out by a colleague who is NICEIC registered and gave far more detail than the part "P" ****. It doesn't stop the cowboys, it just means that nobody declares any of their electrical DIY work which in my opinion is far more dangerous.
    Same with windows. I want to fit replacements to my current house as they are around 20 years old and all getting a bit knackered. I had 2 large ones (2.7 metres wide x 1.8 metres high) replaced by a "FENSA Registered company" last month and I wasn't that impressed with the job really. No packers around frame, excessive use of expanding foam. They initially tried to fob me off with windows that were too small for the apertures and thought I wouldn't notice the 35mm knock-on along the top and one side of the frame, together with a 2 x 1" softwood packer beneath the cill. They them bleated because they would lose money due to new glass (6mm toughened and self cleaning) being required for the re-measured frame. The problem is most people don't know any better that have these idiots in to carry out work and think the FENSA certificate is their guarantee that the job has been done properly. Needless to say, I'll be doing the rest myself and get the local authority spotty youth to come out and sign them off. Anyone know if it's £70 for all of the windows or per frame?
  13. seen it all before

    seen it all before Active Member

    £70 will cover the lot.
  14. Jitender

    Jitender Well-Known Member

    Best to contact your local council.

    My council charge a fee of £100 per part or upto 10 windows. This includes 2 inspections.

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