When home improvement is no fun on the pocket or mind LOL

Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by billathome65, Oct 6, 2018.

  1. billathome65

    billathome65 Member

    Mulling over a job we are having done in a few weeks.

    we've got an old Ideal boiler that is due for replacement.

    So speaking with my nephew whos a plumber and his mate whos a Valiant boiler installer I have decided to take the plunge and have a new valiant boiler fitted.

    As the current central heating system is at least 30 years old they are changing the rads too, 6 in total which are scabby as hell and defo need to go, now the issue arises.

    The pipes going to all the current rads is 10mm and i've been informed that this will also need to be replaced / upgraded with 15mm meaning the floor in the bathroom which has just been layed needs to come back up not a cheep floor either also the expensive floor in the main bedroom also has to come up hopefully without damaging it.

    The quote for the job made me swollow hard £3500 but am assuming this is a ball park or even family rates price?

    Downstairs the boiler will be sited in the corner of the kitchen ( Small kitchen I might add ) there is a sink there but no window so no issues re vent and the sink will not be directly under the boiler there will however be a fused spur under the boiler which I believe means the sink needs to be at least 300mm from the spur.

    Not looking forwards to having to take the floors up but as the kitchen is also ancient this is also being replaced with a built in kitchen so need to get the boiler fitted befor we can consider having the new kitchen fitted.
  2. KIAB

    KIAB Well-Known Member

    Sometimes it's cheaper & easier to pull down ceiling down to plumb a room, if joists are running right direction, rather than rip up a tiled floor,speaking from experience.:)

    Good choice Vaillant, & sensible to repipe in 15mm, can have so much grief with microbore.

    Make sure you filter a magnetic filter, Magnaclean Pro 2, among the best, can't fault mine.
    DIY womble and rogerk101 like this.
  3. billathome65

    billathome65 Member

    They are fitting a filter Im sure he said a magnaclean one cant be sure. As for the ceiling thought, thats a no no as they have just been replastered LOL the joists are running the right way so thats a bonus.

    Is the £3500 a fair price I was told if BG did it it would cost at least £8000 is that an exagerataion or fact? :confused:
  4. KIAB

    KIAB Well-Known Member

    Don't do gas, but can well believe the BG price.

    Shame you had ceilings done.:D
  5. I would rather re-do the ceilings, than the flooring, seriously, give it some thought
    KIAB, DIY womble and rogerk101 like this.
  6. Allsorts

    Allsorts Well-Known Member

    Hi Bill.

    What you seem to be having done is a complete new CH installation - boiler, pipes and rads. The whole caboodle.

    In which case £3.5k sounds pretty ok.

    10mm pipes are also ok provided they are not 'furred' up and are kept clean. Since your system is old, there's a good chance they are furred with sludge and stuff to some degree.

    If your old system actually worked ok (apart from your manky boiler) - ie ALL the rads heated up as they should - then you could insist that they replace only the boiler, in which case the the job would likely come to less than £2k.

    Then you fit a filter (which you should anyway) and a good dose of chemicals and that should clean up your pipes over time.

    Basically, it's your call.

    But, if you were having problems with some rads not heating up, then good chance your sludge issue is more serious and it might be that replacing the pipes with 15mm is the best idea.

    There is nothing 'wrong' with 10mm pipes - provided they are kept clean (ie inhibitor added, and no change of system water).
    KIAB, DIY womble and rogerk101 like this.
  7. Allsorts

    Allsorts Well-Known Member

    On a connected issue - if the 10mm pipes going under the bathroom floor are serving only the bathroom rad, then it should be perfectly ok to cut them where they are accessible and connect the new 15mm pipes to them, so no need to rip up your floor. That will mean that only a couple of short pipe lengths in 10mm remain in your system, and they should clean themselves up over time with a magnetic filter and long-term cleaner added. (Eg Sentinel X900)
    KIAB, DIY womble and rogerk101 like this.
  8. Pollowick

    Pollowick Well-Known Member

    I was going to suggest much the same as Allsorts ... just leave those pipe in place and make sure the system is dosed with cleaner and the filter checked regularly.
  9. billathome65

    billathome65 Member

    Hi Allsorts the only 15mm piping in the system is to the kitchen rad the rest of the house is 10mm many of them kinked and damaged from years of knocks etc.

    Id like to leave the 10mm but to be honest 30 years+ aint a bad run.

    In the bathroom I replaced the rad with a towel rail and this has 15mm feed in, which I joined to the existing 10mm when I replaced the bathroom floor if id have known the issues then Id have replaced the full run under the floor.

    I have a click floor in the bathroom luckily cut round the shower base so if needed could take it up to access the wood floor. Only issue is, is that I have been doing jobs between work etc and thought most of the upstairs was finally complete how wrong I was LOL Originally the price was lower as it should have been just the rads changed a flush and boiler install but to be honest the nephew has been after ripping and redoing the plumbing in this house since he qualified as a plumbero_O

    Ive messaged him and asked if we can leave the 10mm in and just replace the damaged bits by going from 10mm to 15mm just waiting for a responce.
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
  10. wiggy

    wiggy Well-Known Member

    There is no such thing as enjoyable home improvements, unless of course in involves making the garage bigger to accommodate more motorbikes, making a bigger bed so as to move on to 6somes or more or building a bigger playroom, with swings and benches and maybe a cross. Anything else should be left to the pros.
    Jord86 and chippie244 like this.
  11. billathome65

    billathome65 Member

    He replied saying the cleaning fluid will weeken the existing joints and as pipes are already kinked and damaged its false economy. he has said he will get a price for copper to plastic so having copper at rads going to plastic he recons in theory it should bring the price down?
    KIAB likes this.
  12. billathome65

    billathome65 Member

    The 6soms sounds right up my street shame age is catching up on performance though pmsl
    wiggy likes this.
  13. chippie244

    chippie244 Well-Known Member

    Let someone else do the donkey work :)
  14. Allsorts

    Allsorts Well-Known Member

    Plastic pipe is cheaper than copper, by around half, but the fittings used cost a lot more than copper soldered fittings. So it's hard to reckon what the savings will be going 'plastic' but with copper tails.

    Yes, it's perfectly ok to run in plastic and take the 'tail's up through the floor to the rads in copper - that always looks better, and is what I (and others on here) usually do.

    By the same token, IF the existing 10mm pipes are ok and all the rads worked fine and the system water didn't look hellishly black, then the cheapest solution (which your plumber doesn't want to do) is to keep all the main 10mm pipes but change it to 15mm 'tails' to the rads as he was planning for the plastic.

    This is all based on 'if'. IF the existing pipes are ok - not blocked - then there is no real reason why they cannot be retained. Adding cleaning chemicals shouldn't affect the exiting joints, but there's always a risk that a joint will leak following this work, and you know what he'll then say...

    So best go with the flow and hope the use of plastic will knock a few £undred offski.
  15. retiredsparks

    retiredsparks Well-Known Member

    Never really could comprehended that people will decorate, plaster and install carpets....and only then...start thinking about 50 year old electrics and 30 year old plumbing or damp problems.
    KIAB likes this.
  16. Absolutely amazes me, every time. Here I've got a home where the previous owners have had installed a huge imprinted concrete driveway, and large kitchen extension, the only problem? All of this lies on top of the route the manky 15mm water main feed takes!! Did nobody at any point nudge them and say.. Since we're already 750mm down, let's sling a new water main in and future proof this!
    retiredsparks and KIAB like this.
  17. KIAB

    KIAB Well-Known Member

    Seen it more than once over the years, & it's happened in this thread.:rolleyes::(
    retiredsparks likes this.
  18. Harry Stottle

    Harry Stottle Active Member

    Good thing you didn't choose Gloworm, I had one fitted a couple of years ago and it's been a pain in the proverbial. I was discussing the problems in the pub and several said Vaillant and Worcester Bosch are good boilers
    I would say that even with all the extra work £3500 is on the dear side, certainly BG would cost at least 25% more than your friendly local boiler man.
    Don't be talked into going for 15mm unless there's a very good reason, I've had micro bore in my last 3 houses and they've all worked a treat
  19. billathome65

    billathome65 Member

    That's a little unfair and a tad judgemental in my view. As stated already I was only initially looking at a boiler change. Not a full rad and pipe change that was an unforseen outcome of the boiler install. As the kitchen is currently being replaced and redone the boiler change is being done whilst it won't affect anything decorating wise. It's the other stuff that wasn't planned for.

    I suppose there are people who do things **** about ***, but on the same reasoning there are those unfortunate to be caught out by the unexpected.

    Just my two pence to clarify.
    Astramax likes this.
  20. HappyHacker

    HappyHacker Active Member

    I have been asked to do electrical work in rooms shortly after they have been redecorated, retiled or new floors put down. Generally when I point out the problems and the cost of doing all the redecoration again, not by me, they decide not to bother. Fortunately most of my customers do get the sequence reasonably correct

    On the original topic. I fitted 10mm drops to my radiators (bungalow with concrete floors) 40 years ago and there are no problems though most of the pipework is 22mm due to the long runs supplying more than one rad. If there are damaged bits, which I assume you can see, can you not just replace the damaged bits with minimal disruption. I can see the point of replacing the lot though as it may have to last another 30 years.

    I am now in the position of being old enough that the majority of jobs I do will outlast me so I have stopped worrying about how long things will last :(

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