which kitchen appliances must be connected to DP switch? Or is it best practice only?

SpaceTofu

SpaceTofu

Member
Hi all,

hope to get a bit of guidance here. I have essentially two questions and one clarification:

We are refurbishing our kitchen (new units, flooring, etc.etc)
The kitchen has its own ring 32A MCB 2.5mm T+E, and further there is a cooker radial 4mm T+E.
All these wires were laid in trunkings on surface, so I am chasing the walls now to lay the wires into channelling and render over it.

We got a new oven, a Britannia dual fuel (gas + electricty) twin 90cm.
We bought it second hand and it comes with a 13A fused plug, which by the look of it *could* have been added by previous owner; the cable is a 2.5mm flex.
On the manual there is no mention whatsoever of the oven current draw and even online no information whatsoever.

Besides this information incompleteness which it is my task to put a resolution on, assuming now that indeed the oven is shipped out of the factory with the plug:
1) am I right in thinking that it can be connected in a normal single/twin socket on the kitchen ring? And I can therefore decommission the cooker circuit?
Doing so it would save me some deep chasing to do.

Secondly, we are getting a dishwasher in addition to the existing washing machine.
2) Do they both have to be connected to a DP switch each? Or they only should? Or is it simply recommended? Or can they be connected to a double 13A socket?
If they have to be connected to a DP switch each, is this work I can do myself, I am not totally inexperienced when it comes to wiring.
An annoying point could be, I believe you can only have one spur from a socket, so if I install a DP switch each for WM and DW, would I need two spurs from two different sockets? (the WM and DW are going to be installed next to each other)

3) If they cannot be connected to a 13A socket, what is the reasoning behind it?
I can see that my washing machine has a maximum draw of 1.3 kW (which is 5.7A), how come that it has to be connected to a DP, meanwhile an oven that draws much more current (I think) doesn't need a DP switch?

Thanks
 
I have a Britannia 90cm Gas/Electric which may be a different model to yours. Mine is rated at 4.05kW and with both ovens on it could well be drawing full power and thus it could be up at the 18A level or maybe slightly more.

Have a look just insude the oven door on the vertical - there may be a rating plate/sticker.

If it is at that power level, then no way should it be connected to a plug and the cooker outlet is needed.

Call Britannia direct on 0344 463 9705 they will be able to confirm the power level and how it should be wired.
 
top advice @Mike58 !
The oven is a bit difficult to access at the moment as all the units and appliances are piled on top of each other, thankfully the sticker was on the inside of the right door which I can just about open and indeed, 5 kW!!! Which is in line with the kW of spare heating elements I was checking on eBay! No words about the silliness of the previous owner!!
That sets me back at 22A, which then is comfortably provided by the cooker circuit! I will have to keep chasing then!
Thanks again!

Anyone on the question about washing machine/dishwasher and DP switches?
 
AFAIK, connection via a DP switch, or isolating switch is not a requirement, but its highly recommended so the device can be isolated. It makes sense to do so and is "best practice".

High power devices like dishwashers and washing machines, ideally should be plugged into single rather than double sockets as most double sockets are only rated to around 16 amps or so and two devices plugged in could exceed that.
 
SpaceTofu said:
Anyone on the question about washing machine/dishwasher and DP switches?
Click to expand...
I don't know the answer with regard to regulations and the law... however, I would regard it as essential to be able to isolate the circuit when the appliance is in use, without having to pull the appliance out from under the counter to get to the plug socket. What would you do if it started to overheat and you couldn't turn it off... if your only option is to isolate the circuit at the consumer unit that's not ideal.

You can have to sockets located at the back of cupboards, if that helps.

Regards,

Cando
 
There is no regulatory requirement for appliance isolators in your kitchen , double pole or otherwise. Having said that they are convenient.
Plugging your washing machine into a single socket and dishwasher into a second single socket would be my preference ,but if their combined total load is less than 20 amps then both into a double socket would be ok.
You are correct that only one spur is allowed from a socket on a ring final circuit.
If you are burying cables in a wall they must be protected by RCD and be in safe zones.
 
Thanks @Hans_25 and @candoabitofmoststuff, and @terrymac

I think I am probably over complicating the matter anyway.
I will get a pack of DP 13A 2 gang sockets for the whole kitchen and fit them everywhere really.
And additionally I will buy two single DP sockets, to be fitted in the cupboards nearby the two appliances.

@terrymac thank you for remarking about the safe zones, I am aware of them and I am indeed chasing away in a straight line from sockets - nonetheless it is always important to remind the general public of this!
 
Have a think about what you may use in the kitchen. These days there are a lot of small appliances - grinders, beater, blenders, mixers, coffee machines, microwaves, radio, chargers and more. Consider putting triple sockets in some locations and maybe a double with USB power in one or two locations.
 
thanks for the advice @Mike58

I had considered using my angle grinder with a masonry blade to chase, but then thought against it to avoid an excessive dust storm in the house. Didn't know at all that a wall chaser existed!
I then bought one of those SDS chasing blades, which is working alright; it is a bit of hard work though.

So I am in full internal debate now, what a conundrum!
 
SpaceTofu said:
thanks for the advice @Mike58

I had considered using my angle grinder with a masonry blade to chase, but then thought against it to avoid an excessive dust storm in the house. Didn't know at all that a wall chaser existed!
I then bought one of those SDS chasing blades, which is working alright; it is a bit of hard work though.

So I am in full internal debate now, what a conundrum!
Click to expand...

If you can afford £85 it will be worth it. When you say chasing blade do you mean https://www.screwfix.com/p/armeg-sds-plus-shank-channelling-chisel-30-x-225mm/16724

With a vacuum attached on mine, there is almost no dust.

Use the electric chaser to cut the sides, then use the chisel to lift the cente out. With practice you will find it easy and depth will be even.
 
yes I mean that blade/chisel Mike. It is a decent bit of tools, but the chases I am making are hardly even and neat.

I watched a couple of videos and it looks really, really worth it.
I checked my local tool hire and it is 45 quid (blades excluded) plus the faff to go and get it. Screwfix on the contrary is 5 minutes away from home.
Extremely tempted, will probably buy it! Thanks for tip!

The partner will be so thrilled to see another tool in the tool cupboard!
 
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SpaceTofu said:
yes I mean that blade/chisel Mike. It is a decent bit of tools, but the chases I am making are hardly even and neat.

I watched a couple of videos and it looks really, really worth it.
I checked my local tool hire and it is 45 quid (blades excluded) plus the faff to go and get it. Screwfix on the contrary is 5 minutes away from home.
Extremely tempted, will probably buy it! Thanks for tip!

The partner will be so thrilled to see another tool in the tool cupboard!
Click to expand...
I am using one of those Titan wall chaser now. Don't forget to attach a vacuum. its a dusty and noisy job.
 
I have a Titan wall chaser but I find it heavy and cumbersome to use. I ended up using my 18V cordless Makita angle grinder with a suitable blade in, with vacuum attached, to chase out the walls along a pencil line each side, then my SDS+ drill with scutch chisel bit to knock out the innards. Seems easier that way.
 
SpaceTofu said:
yes I mean that blade/chisel Mike. It is a decent bit of tools, but the chases I am making are hardly even and neat.

I watched a couple of videos and it looks really, really worth it.
I checked my local tool hire and it is 45 quid (blades excluded) plus the faff to go and get it. Screwfix on the contrary is 5 minutes away from home.
Extremely tempted, will probably buy it! Thanks for tip!

The partner will be so thrilled to see another tool in the tool cupboard!
Click to expand...

There is also teh Eerbauer https://www.screwfix.com/p/erbauer-ewc1500-125mm-1500w-electric-wall-chaser-220-240v/247fx

I have a previous Erbauer (have just checked) and it is around 11 years old. Just have a read of the reviews and make your decsion. I bought mine as I also found hiring was expensive.
 
Hans_25 said:
I have a Titan wall chaser but I find it heavy and cumbersome to use. I ended up using my 18V cordless Makita angle grinder with a suitable blade in, with vacuum attached, to chase out the walls along a pencil line each side, then my SDS+ drill with scutch chisel bit to knock out the innards. Seems easier that way.
Click to expand...
Titan is heavy but doing good job if you are chasing deep channels (upto 40mm) for conduits for whole house. If its not deep and just few chasings then probably an angle grander can do the job. Also a light weight, easy to handle angle grander is better to chase the back boxes.
 
I have had to put a halt to the job as I broke my foot on that very same day I started this thread!
As I only have one room to do, I decided I will go with the angle grinder and save us 80 quid.

Going back to my original question about the power draw of the Britannia range cooker, I stumbled into this page today which I am pasting here for future reference of anyone needing this info, in case there is no sticker in their oven.
https://www.britannialiving.co.uk/electrical-rating-services

Thank you all for the help and advice!
 
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