Which pushfit

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by Wayne K, Mar 30, 2008.

  1. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    Best avoid the stuff completely,
    and only use when you need to
    thread the stuff.


    Is it OK then for it to leak everywhere in that
    instance then WS?

    Not if using brass compression joints, and no joints in unaccessible areas.
     
  2. Dreadnaught Heating

    Dreadnaught Heating New Member

    Erm, Wayne Kerr, love that name, good job my surname isn't 'king' or wayne would not have been a good choice for my sons name.....

    Back to 'push fit'. I am ready to enter the ring.

    10 years back when I met the local JG rep, its selling point was "a trained monkey can fit this". At that time new build was booming, and there was a genuine shortage of plumbers. (at least round 'ere). So, builders, ever on the search for a way to cut (sorry, minimise) expenditure, could have anyone who could hold up a drawing and follow a schematic could carcass out a house "in no time".

    Fast forward, and everywhere keeps speedfit, Wick*s, Queue&Buy etc, and lo, untrained monkeys are fitting it. I have removed a lot of it minus the inserts(which have changed pattern - of course), find the newer lockable type undone etc.

    I agree the coiled JG pipe (esp the 22mm) is unwieldy, so prefer the 'straight' lengths where poss (under/behind sink tops etc). Its pug-ugly, even with the slimline older type fittings, but I have not had one fail that I have put in. Hep pipe is easier to deal with off the coil, but I do not like the fittings (ie difficult to dismount/remove), tho' the metal inserts of Hep are less restrictive to flow - important on gravity hotwater delivery......

    in previous posts i have derided its use, and truthfully I prefer to install copper, bent where poss as per my apprenticeship tutoring.

    All in all , I believe it has its place in plumbing, just follow the MI's, and protect it against, UV light, rodents, extremes of temp/pressures, chafing, heatlosses, freezing etc.

    just my two old pennies worth, ding ding round 3, seconds out.

    Patrick
     
  3. roc27

    roc27 New Member

    I think as mentioned earlier any sort of fitting can fail,and can fail further down the line aswell,and yes so can plastic fittings,but if your competant enough,you should not have any problems with plastic just cut your pipe properly and use you inserts.If plastic pipe and fittings were that much of a disaster,then why is everyware but everyware selling the stuff by the boat load,and have been for years,there up to BS standard and ive never had problems with it,I do prefer copper though for neatness alone.
     
  4. enjay

    enjay New Member

    Just a thought about JG Speedfit, as pointed out to me a few years ago by a JG rep as he pointed at my LR discovery. Before they got into plumbing big time they were (and still are) the world's leading supplier of push fit connectors to the automotive industry. A lot of anti-lock braking sytems have the pipes connected into the abs box by pushfit fittings similar to speedfit, pressure a bit higher than your average domestic water supply. I've used hep & speedfit for about 12 years now and not had a failure yet. So where do you find all your "big problems" water systems???? maybe self created? and if you are such a great plumber why use Conex comp fittings instead of end feed? just as quick and if soldered correctly, ultimately more reliable. Sorry your argument just doesn't stand up.
     
  5. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    protect it against, UV
    light, rodents, extremes of temp/pressures, chafing,
    heatlosses, freezing etc.

    Doesn't leave much left does it!
     
  6. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    Just a thought about JG Speedfit, as pointed out to
    me a few years ago by a JG rep as he pointed at my LR
    discovery. Before they got into plumbing big time
    they were (and still are) the world's leading
    supplier of push fit connectors to the automotive
    industry.

    They were also a toy company. Fitting.

    A lot of anti-lock braking sytems have the
    pipes connected into the abs box by pushfit fittings
    similar to speedfit, pressure a bit higher than your
    average domestic water supply.

    But not plastic pipes and different O rings. An pipes which can't shoot out.

    I've used hep &
    speedfit for about 12 years now and not had a failure
    yet.

    I don't believe you. I have had failures with both.

    So where do you find all your "big problems"
    water systems????

    How come you have none at all? Do a search on this forum and read the horror stories. Maybe they are all porky telling.

    maybe self created? and if you are
    such a great plumber why use Conex
    comp fittings instead of end feed?

    Endfeed doesn't solder to plastic pipes.

    just as quick and if soldered
    correctly, ultimately more reliable.

    You have answered you own criticism.
     
  7. Mr Ian

    Mr Ian New Member

    I get loads of remedial work because of push fits failing. Installed incorrectly EVERY TIME.

    Either because they've not be pushed past the grab ring or the O ring (depending on make). I install loads in commercial work, and even after years I measure and check the pipe has gone in the right depth.
     
  8. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    I get loads of remedial work because of push fits
    failing. Installed incorrectly EVERY TIME.

    Either because they've not be pushed past the grab
    ring or the O ring (depending on make). I install
    loads in commercial work, and even after years I
    measure and check the pipe has gone in the right
    depth.

    I have had Hep2o push-fit fittings shoot off pipes when a shock wave of pressure hits the pipe. Like turning off and on one-lever taps/showers. I have seen Speedfit stop-ends shoot off and embed themselves in the wall opposite. Each time open ends and masses of water gushing.

    I have had the O ring inside Hep20 and Speedfit dislodge as the fitting was pushed on, even using grease. You don't know it is dislodged until the water is switched on. When people say they have used it for 10 years and no problems, I just don't believe them at all. All people I know who have used it have had problems.

    I know men who fit it on sites and test to high pressures on 1st fix, and then have had problems 2 months after for no apparent reason. "Average" failure is one per house. Their biggest compliant is that they take a lot of pressure to push on. I know none who would have it in their own homes.

    For awkward threading on non-CH systems non-barrier Hep2o pipe is the best as it is more flexible.
     
  9. Dick Puller

    Dick Puller New Member

    I've been in houses that have the old Acorn system installed 20+ years ago, with never a problem...................Like everything else if it's installed correctly, you'll never have a problem.

    Plumbing looks easy but it's not, pushfit fittings look easy - but it still needs a degree of skill.
     
  10. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    I've been in houses that have the old Acorn system
    installed 20+ years ago, with never a
    problem...................Like everything else if
    it's installed correctly, you'll never have a
    problem.

    Todger, if you read the post and do a search you will find that many systems are installed correctly and pushfit causes problems. You must understand this - no wonder your life is a shambles.
     
  11. HOTDOG ø

    HOTDOG ø Active Member

    Ignore Walter Systems - he is the resident plonker.
     
  12. Brid

    Brid New Member

    There seem to be a bit of a debate over push fit, plastic pipes, copper pipes and joints etc. It is personal choice. I have never had a problem with push fit or plastic pipes, just give it that second push to make sure it is firmly home and you should have no bother. eg. changing a set of bath taps with restricted access, cut away the old copper pipework so you can get to the furthest tap. Fit the taps and re-pipe in push fit plastic. Who wants to go soldering in a 4 inch gap next to a plastic bath! Plus, plastic wont fur up inside like copper. Please do any future plumber a favour, do fit isolator valves to each appliance
     
  13. Joelp1

    Joelp1 New Member

    I always use copper except a few circumstances where pushfit is called for. Specifically, the final connection to a tap i use a push coupler (speedfit it think, the reusable ones), to help change the tap in future without messing about in the plumbing bag, and if im adding radiators so i dont have to drain down. Just cut and push.

    They never fail for me. My lad used them and both failed, because he hadnt pushed them in properly.

    There do seem to be a lot of fitters saying they have no problems with them, do you think you might be misinformed WS? Seems odd you have one fail in every house but no one else has seen one fail at all?
     
  14. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    Push-fit are the most problematic of any fittings. Do a search, I keep telling people that. Horror stories.
     
  15. Had <u>ONE</u> failure years ago [hep20]had just finished the job , sitting having a cuppa, and thud, whoosh! thankfully it was a ground floor flat, reason for the failure,











    working with a hangover, not pushed on properly, throughout the country there will be a lot of dozy plumbers out there some mornings
     
  16. mantor

    mantor New Member

    I've been in houses that have the old Acorn system
    installed 20+ years ago, with never a
    problem...................Like everything else if
    it's installed correctly, you'll never have a
    problem.

    Plumbing looks easy but it's not, pushfit fittings
    look easy - but it still needs a degree of skill.



    Well if you think it needs a degree of skill to assemble pushfit fittings no wonder you think plumbing is hard. *** all that takes is a bit of care and attention to detail. Your beginning to sound like someone who needed to serve your time, to learn how to get dressed.
     
  17. mantor

    mantor New Member

    and yes, I do still get dressed by my mother! So what.
     
  18. Mr Ian

    Mr Ian New Member

    Push fit leaking.... Poor installation. I note people complain of stop ends shooting off, perhaps that's because they've been used many times, pushed on pipes with burrs (esp external), etc.

    Only ever had one stop end go on me, fitted by my app. Wonder what happened there... ;)
     
  19. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    Push fit leaking.... Poor installation.

    You need to get out more.
     

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