Who would like to see Joiners etc be cert reg ?

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by FT Joiner, Apr 7, 2008.

  1. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    I have nothing to hide either but like gonzo i pay enough out and have more than enough paperwork thankyou very much.
    I have said it before on here i am thinking of selling up it has got so bad.
    In the last year i have only done a handfull of "proper" jobs.
    My time is now taken up at the desk, in the shop, i hate it.
    I like many others don't need another bit of paper, my work can stand up on it's own.
    Small businesses work on reputation and it doesn't take long to get a bad one no matter how many bits of paper you have.
    All that will happen is the keen diy-er who is sick of his office job will go on the "instant" course, pay his 2 grand on monday and be a quallified whatever on friday.
    The other thing is, you will never get rid of cowboys because some customers will always look to get things done on the cheap, even if the work is cr@p.
    You all say "i saw this terrible job" here or there, well the customer paid someone so the cowboy did get paid!
  2. starlight tiles

    starlight tiles New Member

    conquer your spelling before you start anything mate.

  3. HudsonCarpentry

    HudsonCarpentry New Member

    This is a great idea i think. And of course it will
    stop the cowboys if you are vetted by this and
    customers can have some sort of come back if you do a
    bad job! I personally have no problem with someone
    coming out and checking my work. So what if you have
    been doing your trade for 25years plus it does not
    mean that you do a good job! This is for bonified
    tradesmen who have nothing to hide. Yeah I think you
    should have the option weather you should be
    registered or not thats upto you but it does put you
    in better stand to win more contracts and be
    recognized at least customers have the option to use
    a cert reg tradesman or a non reg tradesman then if
    they do use a none reg tradesman then they only have
    their selfs to blame when something goes wrong!

    But it don't work like that, customers don't know anything about the trade certs etc and the ones that do educate them selfs alittle more still don't no what to look for. again only one customer asked me last year if i had any quals in carpentry, and they even taken my word for it. But last year alone atleast once a month i got asked to do part p work but had to turn them down and they all asked "Whats Part P" after explaining one woman even said to me "just do the work anyway and ill pay you in cash and leave it off the invoice"

    I aint got oat to hide, my work is on the internet for everyone to see but i know i can't afford to be Part P which has lost me lots of work last year and i dam can't afford to shell out a stupid amount to work as a chippy.

    It WILL NOT fix the cowboy problem just like part p hasn't, the only way to fix the cowboy problems is wait for customers to start talking about there bad work!

    MurrMac whats Irony got to do with oat, you think im going to advertise where 5-8k's worth of tools is stored. Last year alone i had my car broken into 3 times, the 3rd one they stolen and burn't and you think that im going to park a van on my street that says under hudson carpentry my house number ..... like ****** im i.. If customers need my home address which they don't they can visit my web site, look at there paperwork or even look on my business card...

  4. HudsonCarpentry

    HudsonCarpentry New Member

    conquer your spelling before you start anything


    Bugger off with your spelling and stop being a petty t**t

    I have large problems with spelling but it doesn't make a blind bit of differance as every one understands what it says

    Why does this forum attract w**kers ??
  5. kaintheo

    kaintheo New Member

    Well I think we need more trading standards officers to literally go round the streets and spot check any building work thats going on, to stop cowboys. And while they're at it they can check for any serious health and safety breaches etc etc.
    (A stanley knife on site is a damn necessity, not a health & safety breach.)

    A trade police if you will.

    A large presence will help for sure.

    But would this government ever do anything like that? I doubt it very much even though cowboys cost the economy, honest workers and at times, lives.
  6. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    Making you pass some other test to do what you have done all your life is a nonsense.
    It will just give money to the organiser at our expense.
    It won't stop cowboys because they take no notice and there is no end to punters who want work done on the cheap.
    They pay peanuts so you know what they get.
    As for the spelling police on here, naff off, i ain't a schollar that's why i went on the tools!
  7. HudsonCarpentry

    HudsonCarpentry New Member

    Now this is kind of a good idea.

    i can sees some problems with them turning up at the wrong time but it would probably help the cowboy problem alittle but the only way this will happen if is they tax us some how to pay for it :mad: which inturn means that to get rid of a few (and thats all it will be) cowboys it will be at our expence.

    But i still say forget it all as there is far to much politics in our country thats ruined it..
  8. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    Trade police!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    how would that work, how do they know where to go?

    Old mrs. smith has to notify the local joinery gestapo when she is having a door trimmed to accomodate her new carpet.
    Adolf turns up, oooh sorry you have 6mm of clearance there instead of 4mm, we will have to prosecute joiner jim under the cruelty to softwood act!
  9. FT Joiner

    FT Joiner New Member

    I agree with some of you to a certain degree ! But I still think that something needs to be done even something along the lines of we all should have a company registration no and then if you do do a shoddy job then you get struck off the list ! I guess at the mo we are all feeling the strain of the forth coming recession ! Think its time the goverment helped us out and get to grips with these cowboys !Oh btw I might to able to spell but im a ******* good joiner you cock wart!!!
  10. Captain Leaky

    Captain Leaky New Member

    Dream on, governments always want competition, it keeps prices keen.

    Anything that smacks of a monopoly will be hated by them and the public and then ignored.

    Cowboys have always been with us but the cream always rises to the top.

    If your work is good then you will do well and be sought after, if not it's competing with the cowboys is where you will remain.....it's true for all of us in all trades.
  11. blueassedfly!

    blueassedfly! New Member


  12. kaintheo

    kaintheo New Member


    Firstly, don't tell me to naf off.

    You have taken what I said out of context. Trading standards already exist and I merely suggested an increase in their numbers and random checking up on jobs.
    Much the same as the programs on T.V that pull the pikeys that just charged 3 grand to tarmac the drive of some poor 78 year old.

    I never suggested anything about having to register works did I?
    A lot of jobs have this with building control already.

    If there is a good chance that trading standards could turn at any time then it may prevent some of the cowboys out there.

    The problem is that right now, you have more chance of winning the lottery than having anyone turning up at your job.
  13. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    *** kaintheo, did i tell you to naff off? don't think so, i was refering to the person who was correcting peoples spelling!
    Trading standards checking up on jobs, how would that work?
    They would need to be qualified to ***** weather or not a job was done to standard and believe me they are not.
    Deciding what standard a job is up to depends on a lot of things and is not the same as what happens on builders from hell etc.
    Do you think every job has to be perfect, rubbish!
    The work you do has to be carried out with reasonable care and skill and for a reasonable charge.
    The goods you supply must be of satisfactory quality, fit for the purpose and as described.
    You go to a bespoke refurb and hang doors, you charge top whack because you have to spend a lot of time to make the job perfect for your demanding customer or a landlord tells you to throw on some howdens tennner doors, cheap as you can so they can get tennants in.
    Where's the standard? what will your "police" be looking at?
    As for bco, i had them at my house recently, the cast a 5 second glance over the bulk of the work.
    The only things they paid attention to were the steel was right where we knocked through and the new windows had the right stickers on.
    The electrics, i flashed a elesca paper at him and he didn't even look at it.
  14. FT Joiner

    FT Joiner New Member

    Boys boys stop fighting !! We are all supposed to be in this together and here to come up with some sort of solution that can cut down the number of cowboys. Lets start thinking positive rather than having ago at each other! I know we aint going to get rid of the cowboys full stop but if we can get our heads together and come up with something that will help us all then that would be great. This job is hard enough without everyone ******* at each other.
  15. Mr Mike

    Mr Mike New Member

    Count me out....

    Fact - There are and always will be cowboys, bodgers & desperados (both indigenous and immigrant) that will do the job for a cup of tea and a doughnut.....

    ....and you know what.....

    ....they're good for business.

    In the area I work, it only makes me look better to my customers, creates more loyalty & appreciation from my customers........and no, people don't always want the cheapest......and if they do, they're not the people I want to work for......

    There will always be opportunists & chancers.....bless 'em.....!

    A good tradesman will always be busy.

    I don't hate cowboys.....they make me laugh.....and the fact they get away with it is even funnier !

  16. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    Mr.mike is right,
    the penny pinchers who spend all day with a stopwatch looking over your shoulder, the ones who want a refund off the the sawdust are the ones i too can do without.
    A guarantee on your work, a proper bill head and the confidence to work on a small deposit and wait for payment until the job is done is the way.
    The tight @rse customers who end up getting ripped off sometimes have themselves to blame for trying to cut the job to the bone.
  17. dunc

    dunc New Member

    In many cases the certification and qualification of people does have some use. But that's largely due to people wishing to be of an equivalent category to each other.

    If you are in the environment where this kind of thing is important you will likely be going for a variety of certifications to keep afloat, be competitive and for your own interest.

    But there also needs to be options for those not wanting or needing such continual rebranding. Such occupations are often best left as self regulating things. Because they don't need anything more than basic skills.

    Self certification already exists as an acceptable form of qualification. It simply means that if you feel confident and know your abilities you can do what you promise to deliver.

    There are many occupations where certifications are not needed. Some leading to significant roles in society.

    So, have certifications for those who require them and let that kind of process run as its needed.

    But also allow others to trade under their own initiative and skill sets.

    Most of the stories of poor tradesmen eminate from equally dim witted employers and customers. ie people who haven't taken the time to investigate the people they employ. There is no need for it to happen if they go about things in the right way.
  18. oliver1234

    oliver1234 New Member

    After many a debate I think its time that joiners,
    roofers,kitchen fitters,builders become a cert
    registered ? Just like corgi and niciec ! I think its
    time that the cowboys were rid of ! I have seen and
    heard so many horror stories in the 16years I have
    been in this game it is sickening. So I am looking to
    get something done to cut the cowboys. Sign below if
    you agree and I will contact my local MP and see what
    we can achive with it!!

    Kind regards

    No need to volounteer for another certification scheme mate.

    FENSA, Part P, CORGI etc etc etc are all government led initiatives and I have little doubt that they will find a scheme for all trademen eventually.

    Please don't think that any of these schemes have anything to do with quality of work though, they are just a means of limiting the black economy.

    You cannot legally install windows, gas fittings or electrics without issuing a certificate of some sort so you cannot really do cash jobs any more.

    Wake up and smell the coffee, regulatory schemes actually promote bad workmanship by creating an even bigger price divide between legitimate trademen and cowboys.
  19. sammy toaster

    sammy toaster New Member

    you are trying to say you want a "closed shop" but you are too late my friend ,all you loadsamoney self employed idiots sold your souls to thatcher and killed the unions,well the reckoning has arrived.
  20. Chekhov

    Chekhov Member

    There are 300.000 people leaving this country every year. I don't know what that statistic tells you but I'm thinking I might want to join them!

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