Who would like to see Joiners etc be cert reg ?

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by FT Joiner, Apr 7, 2008.

  1. Chekhov

    Chekhov Member

    There are 300.000 people leaving this country every year. I don't know what that statistic tells you but I'm thinking I might want to join them! Why? Because of "initiatives" like this which reek of the odour of fascism.
  2. RK Joiner

    RK Joiner New Member

    I think that certification is of no use what so ever...

    Joinery is one of the only trades where natural ability and skill are required rather than just knowledge... you can learn the theory behind joinery but that doesn't mean you churn out quality work. I am more than capable of matching any fmb joiner or so called master craftsman... and I never went to college for a single hour! I learnt off of 3 highly skilled joiners and worked my way up from brushing the floor and making tea to being self employed and being fully competant in my work... I've encountered individuals who are degree quallified and are running large building sites who have their platinum cscs cards or whatever and they know absoloutly f*ck all! Like previosuly stated... a bit of paper doesnt mean anything!

    Why would the goverment be interested in certifying the quallity of tradesmens work anyway... they'd have to sack all their council joiners!
  3. audi-evo

    audi-evo Active Member

    "I might want to join them!"
    i'll join you.
  4. sammy toaster

    sammy toaster New Member

    rk joiner, so you served an apprenticship, do you want everyone else to go away and die?.
  5. RK Joiner

    RK Joiner New Member

    no not at all toaster... I'm just pointing out that it really doesn't matter what paper people have,,, degrees, city and guilds, cscs cards, FMB membership...

    You're always going to get some individuals that have paper but no actual pratical ability (most local authority tradesmen for example) or people who have little ammounts of paper but who have years experience and even tradesmen who have plenty of ability and papers but who choose to churn out bellow par work becasue they can get away with it...

    It sickens me, every day that I have to fix things that previous individuals have botched and I feel sorry for cusotmers who get cowboys in but a bit of paper isn't going to stop it happening,,, the only thing that customers can do is look at previous work of tradesman and set out in stone what they are expecting for the agreed ammount of money... as soon as the customer starts to suspect that they are not getting what they are paying for, then they have to stop the work at that point and either amicably agree a solution or they have to get another tradesperson.

    I'm by no means trying to offend anybody who is fmb, nor am I trying to have a go at indivduals who have no papers at all, I'm just trying to express my oppinion that every individual has to be judged on an individual basis when it comes to ability... there will never be a proper way of ensuring that people who have little ability dont take on more than what they're capable of but there are a lot of indivduals who once had skill themselves,,, established their buisnesses and now rely on lower ability individuals to carry out volume work and although it's a pitty it's got to be that way... it always will be that way!
  6. blueassedfly!

    blueassedfly! New Member

    i completly agree with you, but it is and always should be the CLIENTS RESPONSABILITY to check on the tradesmen they employ, we dont need certs for that just educated publice that they cannot fone a tradesmen on a saturday and expect him to start monday! its the i want it now mentallity that give the opportunist cowboys their market! 9-10 people are willing to wait the other 1 will get shoddy work, then the likes of us go in and DO IT RIGHT!:)
  7. sammy toaster

    sammy toaster New Member

    no good having a pop at local authority maintenance workers,in my experience these people need to be able to sort out a lot of different problems in one day. on sites or on contract it is straight forward new work. the days of dossing on "the council" are long gone.
  8. mailee

    mailee New Member

    I agree that there shouldn't be any regs for joiners, just more paperwork and probably more cost to us poor joiners who find it hard to make a living anyway! Most of the joiners i know don't have any qualifications as such and still get plenty of work. Customer isn't bothered if they are registered with this or that just that they do a good job at the right price. Mate of mine is a joiner of many years without any qualifications and now owns his own business employing 35 joiners, he is never short of work.
  9. RK Joiner

    RK Joiner New Member

    I'm not dissing all local authority tradespersons.. well I am but its just a cheeky responce to the thought of the goverment having to justify getting rid of cowboy builders when a good number of their indirectly employed workforce are bordering on cowboyish!

    I have to say that 90% of the east ayrshire local authority work force (my locality) do not produce a quality of work that would pass the expectations of even the most forgiving trading std's officer!

    As for them being up against it...! They have access to every trade, quant survs, struct engs, clerks of works, formen, planning dept, all the tooling they need!

    I know it sounds like i'm being very negative towards pretty much every type of tradesman but I'm not really,,, like I said every individual should be judged on an individaul basis...

    I'll be in the que behind the local authority boys on purgatory! ha
  10. sammy toaster

    sammy toaster New Member

    i suppose its where the local authority is, but in london the boys are on a big push, hand held computors mobile phones going from control every ten minutes from a litlle "motivated" office "person" who has promised a"customer" that alittle man will be there in ten minutes to sort out her ballcock.
  11. RK Joiner

    RK Joiner New Member

    och must be a nighmare in places like london but where I am you never see a council van that doesnt have at least one person sitting doing f all reasing the paper and when they do actually do some work... it's normally rough.. which is fine up untill the occupants buy the house and then it's people like me who have to go in and try make the customers feel like a valued private cusomter in receipt of a high spec finish when we got years of bodging to contend with!

    Just for example... I had to ba*tard mitre a new door facing and take a 15mm check out of the back side 300mm down and then a further 5mm check out over 95mmish and then return back to full width the rest of the way to the floor... reasoning??? A coucil spark had ran his cable down the wall in plastic conduit to accomidate a light switch! what a pain in the ar*e!

    What does a motivated person sound like? I can mimic a motivated person for about the first half hour each day,, then I just start to sound like a pesimistic old codger nearly at retirement... n i'm only 23! lol
  12. sammy toaster

    sammy toaster New Member

    immm, indeed you do sound like a 23 year old know it all scotts git.
  13. RK Joiner

    RK Joiner New Member

    You sound like a threatened ole scabby cross bread that's just encountered the a young pedigree.. surely you can find something more cinstructive to have a go about?
  14. sammy toaster

    sammy toaster New Member

    and you are the clown trying to deny decent people the right to work.you angry little bigoted chap.
  15. RK Joiner

    RK Joiner New Member

    biggoted... wouldn't the use of young scottish know it all git be a fine example of someone who's biggoted!

    Think you might do well to read the whole thread and you'll find I repeatedly say that everyone should be judged no matter what their background!

    I think you'd find i'd be the last one to deny anybody the right to work, given my personal background so try leaving the personal attitudes and grudges out of your posts and keep them in your head!
  16. Built for life

    Built for life New Member

    i can see where your comming from on this 1. But i would have to say NO. People in the trade want to work and earn money for wat they do. Not fill out forms everytime they do a job. Just anotha back door tax. And not only that, word of mouth is the best form of reccomendation. Well, i think so
  17. lojo

    lojo New Member

    yes gas and electrical work is self certified whilst structual,fire and insulation etc is supposedly checked by the BCO.

    So if we were to go with the opening posts suggestions, we would be sending the council a cert to state that we have fitted the roof timbers and skirting correctly and no6 smith street, whilst paying a governing body big bucks for the certificate pad and id no. + taking days of each year for imposed courses.

    leave it to the BCO for building issues and clients thumbs up for cosmetics.
  18. Mr Mike

    Mr Mike New Member

    So then...... FT Joiner Jon, the original poster that left this debate over a week ago.........lol.........that'll be a resounding NO then !


    Your local MP is safe to carry on dressing up in nappies and shoving an orange in his gob...... ;)
  19. slapiton

    slapiton New Member

    rk joiner is probably a wee hun into the bargain, he would ban anyone that did not have red hair from working "north of the border
  20. RK Joiner

    RK Joiner New Member

    The only thing that annoys me about your comment slapiton is that you dont seem to have given any advice or said anything constructive on any recent post, not that I spent long reading the pishh that seems to flow off your keyboard, which leads me to think that you probablly dont know much about anything, I rekon this is the only place you can try put people down becasue a lack of basic inteligence and probably stature makes it near impossible in reality. In the real world you'd probablly be to scared of someone not being able to resist rearranging your likelly already toothles smile!

    Have you people nothing better to do than half read posts, looking for the tiniest posibility of finding something that you can **** someone off for... I hope it makes you feel better about yourselves, cause It certainly doesnt make me feel any worse!

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