who's the hero?

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by SDSMax, Oct 21, 2005.

  1. SDSMax

    SDSMax New Member

    Hello chaps, I hope your planer blades are keeping sharp and your sliding mitre's not seized! today is Trafalgar Day and I think Nelson is the greatest English hero ever. Do you agree or do you think different?
     
  2. Smalley

    Smalley New Member

    Hi SDS Max,

    I think Churchill is the greatest English hero, with Nelson coming a very close second! Then Keith moon!!!!!

    Steve
     
  3. dewaltdisney

    dewaltdisney New Member

    Hi SDS Max,

    You should pop over to Trusted Tradesman as I am sure you would enjoy the banter. Judging by the posts you make you will fit in nicely :)

    There is a fine line between hero and idiot. You are a hero if it comes off and an idiot if it doesn't. Nelson took a serious risk when he went across the French line in that a wind change could have made it a disaster. Similarly he had no guarantee the French would hold their line, which fortunately they did and it became their undoing. So as it turns out he was hero.

    An idiot was Scott of the Antarctic who took terrible risks and poor planning which resulted in the deaths of him and his colleagues. Strange thing is, he is seen as a hero?

    Strange old world.

    DWD
     
  4. SDSMax

    SDSMax New Member

    I respect what you two boys say but it's still Nelson for me, thanks for replying.


    SDSMax
     
  5. Fabulous Freda

    Fabulous Freda New Member

    Sir Ernest Shackleton, Antarctic explorer.
    The Endurance expedition, complete failure & yet resounding success against ridiculous odds; as every carpenter should know. If you don't know the story; Google him.
     
  6. trustedman

    trustedman New Member

    Personally I'm of the opinion that Nelson was an idiot.

    He died at the battle of Trafalgar as, he insisted on standing on the deck during battle wearing full military dress and wearing his medals. The French used the medals as target practise and shot him with rifles.

    Like I said more of an idiot and less of a hero, he didn't even get to see the end of the battle
     
  7. SDSMax

    SDSMax New Member

    Would you rather Nelson ran away and hid like a coward? He was standing on deck because he was leading his men in battle, just like the other great commanders such as Alexander The Great and Julius Caeser but Nelson was unfortunate to be killed which is the risk all military personel take. The concept of stealth and camouflage in warfare didn't exist in Nelson's day, he did his duty for his country and his men, so what if he didn't see the end of the battle? - he won! or you may have been speaking French now!
    And as for being an idiot, men like Adolf Hitler and Saddam Hussain - they're the idiots!

    p.s. so who's your hero then tim'll fix it?
     
  8. dirtydeeds

    dirtydeeds New Member

    tim youve missed the point completely.

    Nelson was no idiot, he was a driven man who took extraodiary risks and was a proven winner. he wore his medals on deck so his men could see him, nelsons men did what he asked because they could see him and they believed in him.

    yes being a visible figurehead did also make him a target
     
  9. trustedman

    trustedman New Member

    I agree with what SDS and DD say that being up there was a great example to set, leading the men from the from the problem is that he got shot in the process and couldn't lead anymore and he actually didn't need to be up there in the first place.

    As for my hero, I don't know Brunnel, but he's not really a hero so I will plump for General Montgommery
     
  10. i fit

    i fit New Member

    While Monty was indeed a great leader of men, some times he couldn't see the wood for the trees. Remember Market Garden? That was his baby.
    Even after that shambles he was convinced that the way into Germany was via the low lands.
    The Yanks hated him. None of them wanted to be under hs command and if it wasn't for Eisenhower playing the peace maker Monty would have been sent back to old Blighty.
    Still a top bloke but all heros have flaws.
     
  11. SDSMax

    SDSMax New Member

    The bottom line is that Nelson was doing his job but unfortunately was killed in the process and as for him wearing a conspicuous uniform full of medals you have to take into account the accepted procedure for the time. The British soldiers that fought at Rorkes Drift and Isandlwana in 1879 were wearing bright red tunics with white helmets and the Zulus found them easy targets but that uniform was standard army issue at the time, obviously lessons were learned and that would never happen now. What ifit says about Monty is correct, I think there are heros and then there's blokes like Bomber Harris that have to get the dirty work done.
     
  12. PowerTool

    PowerTool New Member

    The British soldiers that fought at Rorkes
    Drift and Isandlwana in 1879 were wearing bright red
    tunics with white helmets and the Zulus found them
    easy targets but that uniform was standard army issue
    at the time

    Red was chosen as it did not show blood stains,so the enemy could never tell if they had hurt you or not.
     
  13. SDSMax

    SDSMax New Member

    Yes I'm sure you're correct PowerTool but it still made them stand out like a sore thumb, now in all modern armies camouflage is the name of the game.
     
  14. ukwoody

    ukwoody New Member

    Sorry to be contentious, but to me the real hero, is the local kid recovering from cancer who walks for miles to raise a few hundred pounds to help the research...
    Or the disabled people who take part in the Para Olympics or the disabled London Marathon.

    I know its a tad twee, but to me THEY are the only real heros...
    Woody
     
  15. PowerTool

    PowerTool New Member

    Don't think it's contentious at all - I certainly won't disagree with you.
    Never agreed with professional sportsmen getting OBE's (but don't object to amateur sportsmen getting them)

    The unsung heroes are the real ones.
     
  16. Hoskie

    Hoskie New Member

    Andy Mcnab for me.
     
  17. Dewy

    Dewy New Member

    Red was chosen as it did not show blood stains,so the
    enemy could never tell if they had hurt you or not.

    The redcoats started with Cromwells Model Army the roundheads.
    2,500 years ago the Spartans wore blood red cloaks to hide any wounds.
    300 at Thermopelae with their king Leonidas held off the might of the Persian empire until a Greek traitor showed the enemy a pass through the mountains so they trapped the 300 between the mountains, sea and Persions in front and behind.
    Nelson was the greatest hero this country has ever had and was mobbed wherever he went for years before Trafalgar.
    The French and Spanish fleet knew the tactics Nelson was likely to use because he had beaten the French at the Nile using the same method.
    They had no defence against him and expected to lose before the battle began.
    For over 100 years after Trafalgar no fleet in the world would take on the Royal Navy because of Nelsons legacy.
     
  18. ukwoody

    ukwoody New Member

    Trust Dewy to know his facts ;)
    Woody
     
  19. SDSMax

    SDSMax New Member

    If you look into the history of the 300 Spartans you soon realise they were EXTREMELY brave men, one of them commented to his Commander that the Persians have so many archers that their arrows will blot out the sun, the Commanders response was "then we fight in the shade!" they also fought with the Greek letter Lambda on their shields which apparently represented their homeland.
     
  20. dirtydeeds

    dirtydeeds New Member

    back to red to hide blood on british troops, nelsons gun decks were painted red to hide the blood of the gunners, gunners mates and the powder monkeys when they were wounded or killed
     

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