Why are leavers such numpties

Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by chippie244, Mar 24, 2018.

  1. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    Welcome back, DA.
    It's kind of ironic (I thought I'd include your most cherished word) though that his freedom is granted on this day. He's been given a further 365 days that will be filled with wishful diatribe against the democratically enacted brexit decision.
    Every day that passes from now on will be one less, one less day until a year and a couple of hours from now, the realisation that no 'white charger', no 'Gina', no 'momentum' can stop the inevitable.
    Brexit, means brexit.

    Even the BBC are cautiously turning on a sixpence in their reporting style.
    They've accepted that we're leaving the EU, and are finally bringing the benefits of it to the forefront in many of their political programs.
    I do hope 'Mr cynical' follows suit?
     
  2. goldenboy

    goldenboy Super Member

    This is just arrogant nonsense and waffle

    Firstly your formula for working out average household contribution is just plainly wrong.

    Secondly the fact you are pointedly ignoring your basic error on gross/net household income is telling.

    Surprised you are trebling down on this.

    Its really basic stuff you are falling down on. And the more you try to convince yourself you are right the less convincing you are.

    You are making yourself look a little bit foolish and pigheaded here.

    After all mine is just an opinion on net contribution. Yours is a demonstrably incorrect position based on incorrect and misquoted stats.

    Nothing personal.
     
  3. btiw2

    btiw2 Screwfix Select

    Fair enough.

    I think I’ve laid out my reasoning. I’m happy with it. Anyone is welcome to google “skew”, “median”, “mean” and check my stats.

    I trust you have yours.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  4. goldenboy

    goldenboy Super Member

    I have no stats. Just an opinion.

    You tried to make me look stupid by making up statistics and misquoting ONS figures.

    Pretty happy that there is clarity on what has happened here.

    I have expressed an opinion.

    You have miscalculated your figures and then been unable to accurately use an ONS stat.

    Then you have been too arrogant to acknowledge your errors.

    Think I will draw a line under this now.

    But I think you have done your own credibility a world of damage with this.

    Didn't need to be like this. At all.
     
  5. Jimmycloutnail

    Jimmycloutnail Screwfix Select

    The average uk salary is 27,000 pre tax,
    I’m can’t believe a remainer is questioning figures from the ONS!!!

    You do realise government income, comes from both central and local government? The average wage in the uk is 27k pre tax thus average joes are not even close to paying in more than they receive.

    This all stems from a figure I gave earlier in the thread that you tried to claim was inaccurate but then failed to show any knowledge of the statistics
     
  6. HarDeBloodyHarHar

    HarDeBloodyHarHar Active Member

    The Prime Minister(originally a bremainer) now agrees that what money we won't be paying to the EU can be spent on the NHS, and maybe schools.
    Seems that leavers are not such numpties after all. And that the words on Boris' bus were like not exactly accurate, but principally true nonetheless.
     
  7. goldenboy

    goldenboy Super Member

    Jimmy. Here we go again.

    Try actually looking at what has been said not what you want to be said.

    The ONS figure used is the average household disposable income of £27k.

    That's after deductions.

    Not before as claimed.

    At what point have I doubted the ONS stat? I haven't.

    I expressed an opinion and matey tried to shoot it down by firstly inventing a figure for state spending per household and secondly by portraying a net household ONS income stat as the gross household income.
     
  8. btiw2

    btiw2 Screwfix Select

    Sigh. Okay, I can see this number is bothering you. You could have looked it up, but allow me.

    I’ve looked up (ons again) the average household direct tax. I think I guessed £5k. It’s actually between 7 and 8.

    So I was 2-3k out. Great so the average joe now just has to pay 32-33k in vat/tobacco/alcohol and other indirect taxes.

    This is surreal.

    Can I just clarify?

    You think the average joe’s household pays £40k per annum in tax? Or do you think the stats for government expenses are wrong? Or the number of households?

    Choose (at least) one. I’m happy to provide links.
     
  9. Isitreally

    Isitreally Super Member


    Amen.
     
    btiw2 likes this.
  10. btiw2

    btiw2 Screwfix Select

    I thought I said 29k. Anyway with direct taxes added back it’d be about 36. Still more than 100% of income taken in tax.
     
  11. You make that sound as tho' Mrs May has just come to her senses and the Leave campaign didn't really fib.
     
  12. Jimmycloutnail

    Jimmycloutnail Screwfix Select

    No it’s the average salary
    no it 27k taxable income from many sources the HBAI actually states less about 25k
     
  13. HarDeBloodyHarHar

    HarDeBloodyHarHar Active Member

    No. Mrs may has probably known this all along, but as is the 'political' way, no-one likes to admit any opposition is right.

    Remember, all the bremainers were calling the suggestion preposterous, and totally untrue.
     
  14. Jimmycloutnail

    Jimmycloutnail Screwfix Select

    We’ve done this in your absence
     
  15. goldenboy

    goldenboy Super Member

    So now you are using your adjusted incorrectly attributed ONS stat to counter your plucked from the sky household required contribution?

    This definitely is surreal.

    Mine is an opinion.

    Your stats are an utter car crash.

    Confusing gross with net. Household income with personal income. 29k here. 35k there. £27k round the corner. Add on this bit. Take away that bit. Divide this bit by that bit. Then chuck it all in a dustbin marked BS.

    Its a mess. And all to counter just my personal opinion.
     
  16. goldenboy

    goldenboy Super Member

    No mate. I just question the validity of your 40k figure. Its blatantly bogus.

    And I question your ability to interpret even basic published stats.

    You thought disposable income was gross for crying out loud.
     
  17. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    Opinion triumphs truth then?

    I had an inkling you were a Corby fanatic.
     
  18. btiw2

    btiw2 Screwfix Select

    I’m not sure why this has become so acrimonious.

    It was probably my tone - it usually is. I can’t argue with “arrogant” though - it is an adjective that is often used to describe me. I can’t see it myself.

    For the record though. I wasn’t trying to make you look stupid. I was just picking up on a statistical point. I don’t think it’s controversial that that the rich subsidise the poor. In fact, I think that was your point too! It’s just that the average joe isn’t rich (was my point).

    There IS a valid point about the working man subsidising the pensioner (until the working man becomes a pensioner and then the roles are reversed). I tried to hint at that with my comment about the old using the nhs (as some of us might when we’re older).

    Jeez. Perhaps we need Chippie back as a moderator.

    But if you want to continue then, lay on. Spreadsheets at dawn?
     
  19. btiw2

    btiw2 Screwfix Select

    Okay. I looked up government spending and quoted it as “roughly 800 billion” from the ons. I divided that by “roughly” 20 million to get 40k.

    Admittedly, I did it in my head (which is why used approximate numbers). Can someone check that?

    At least we know where the disagreement lies now.
     
  20. 'Remainer' May (then and now) 'probably' knew this all along? My post #183 case is rested.
     

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