Why is Part P such a faff?

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by peter palmer, Apr 18, 2018.

  1. peter palmer

    peter palmer Screwfix Select

    I did have to send a reminder email to say have you got the email we sent with the "evidence of compliance" - we needed to buy the latest OSG and send them a CV, a CV for ***** sake, not done one of them since I left school 30 years ago, apparently it so they can trace your job history to make sure your not telling porkies about your experience. Not sure why its any of their business, I thought the assesor had a half arsed look at a socket you wired and then deemed you competent.
     
  2. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    It should be simple. No different to buying a bottle of booze.
    I go into Waitrose and pick up a bottle of gin. I cannot buy it until the shop person has checked I am of an age/checked my ID.

    Same for certain electrical goods. Spark goes into shop, picks CU (or whatever) no ID (NICEIC/NAPIT/ etc ) card then he/she cannot buy the goods. Simples.
     
  3. Peterdevon

    Peterdevon Screwfix Select

    It should be like
    Australia
     
  4. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    Like number plates - go to dealer handover ID and V5c, fill up some forms and you get your number plates. Oh wait, I get mine from an eBay seller only id needed is a paypal account:)
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  5. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    So how do you Police this then? How would you even begin to train the staff in every retail outlet in the UK? What if they deliberatly sold them? Would they be prosecuted? Who would administer this? Making sure all updates etc are issued? Who would pay for this? You? Or the regular tax payer?
     
  6. peter palmer

    peter palmer Screwfix Select

    You don't need to police everything, you just need to make the public aware of the regulations, no-one would have a boiler fitted without ensuring that the fitter is gas safe registered although I'll bet 90% still ask if they are CORGI.

    Its all about advertising, the difference is CORGI and Gas Safe have put the message out there that this is the law but the slimy gets at the NIC and NPAIT etc have embezzled every penny of revenue for themselves and not spread the word in any way shape or form.
     
  7. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    I work in industrial so that's me stuffed!

    Sorry, you are talking c r a p!
     
  8. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    Yet again, rubbish!

    Working as an electrician doesn't only cover domestic. Get over yourselves!

    Those of us who work mainly outside domestic don't have to worry about part P until we come to do a small job at home. We can wire out a factory, car parking etc no problem, but we cant do domestic because of part P.

    Lets scrap part P and make it that if you haven't worked for 5 years in industrial you cant do domestic so yu have the experience and breadth of work industrial gives you.

    Ha ha. Think about that then!

    Kind regards
     
    Bogle Crag, KIAB and Coloumb like this.
  9. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    That is exactly what happened in Hong Kong when I wanted to by a radio transmitter, either I had to show it was for export, or I had to hold a Hong Kong radio licence. We do it in this country with guns, so why not extend it to any other lethal product, having to show your drivers licence to buy a car, etc.

    The point of course is a car driving licence, or a ham radio licence, are issued by the government. We use to have a closed shop where the Union did the Policing, but this was stopped, you can't have a single organisation other than the government deciding if people can ply their trade, or it would be a closed shop and so illegal. How GasSafe gets away with it I don't know? But the scheme operators are not even allowed to tell each other when they expel someone.

    Then the government did a review, it was pointed out things like alzheimers would mean some electricians would need to be expelled,
    so there should be around 200 electricians a year which for one reason or another have their permission to self certify withdrawn, however it seems in the year when the review was done there were 5. This was one of the reasons why the restrictions were relaxed in England, however by that time Wales has separated from England for this function so it was not relaxed in Wales.

    We have always had laws where we need to show a warrant of skill, so in real terms Part P is nothing to do with doing poor work, it is all about making money by doing nothing.
     
  10. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    They looked at me daft when after they wanted to see the ID of person in front of me, they did not ask for mine, I told them that was against the law to treat people different because they look old, all he did was laugh, OK I am 66 and have a good 4 inches of beard, but they don't check everyone, I still have my electricians status in Screwfix and use the trade counter, so I could still buy what I wanted, even if I am a doddering old fool.

    And of course only at the moment domestic, commercial electricians don't need to be scheme members, so the government would need to do the same as when they brought out driving licences, they would need to accept anyone who claimed they were an electrician, unlike the RAE with radio amateurs, there is no single qualification to show your an electrician.
     
  11. spinlondon

    spinlondon Screwfix Select

    There are an awful lot of misconceptions in this thread.
    1. You don’t need to register with a scheme to do electrical work.
    2. Part P was not introduced to prevent unqualified electricians from doing work, it was introduced to check their work is safe.
    3. Inspection and testing is not covered by Part P because Building Regulations pertain to construction, not inspections.
    4. There’s no qualification to prove someone is an electrician, because no qualification is required.
    Anyone can be an electrician, all they have to do is be paid to do electrical work.

    All this talk about restricting the sale of goods to registered persons, makes me wonder whether this is to protect the public, or to protect the livelihood of electricians.
     
  12. Bob Rathbone

    Bob Rathbone Screwfix Select

    Point 1, Yes not all work is covered by the requirements of Part P, only domestic and minor parts of that are exempt.
    Point 2, Surely, the best way to ensure safe work is to make sure that the person doing it knows what they are doing and understands the system they are working on. Self certification does not give full assurance of compliance as the tester will be the installer using the same lack of knowledge to test as was used to install (in the worst case).
    Point 3, Ok, yes, but try to issue a certificate for domestic work without being a member of NAPIT etc.
    Point 4, Unfortunately you are correct, anyone can put a sign on a van and call themselves an Electrician without any qualifications.
    Sadly, the way both Gas Safe and Part P have been organised, has simply driven the unqualified underground, it has not resolved any of the issues that it was designed to solve, just made the whole system more complex and expensive for the end user.
     
  13. Cecilb70

    Cecilb70 Active Member

    Anyone can put a sign on there van and call themselves a spark. Unless you want to do it honestly then it's murder. I'm qualified to c an g 2330 oops that's an older cert. I'm not anything despite spending thousands on training years doing the training. Most of the Sparks on that course we're struggling with simple maths let alone anything really tricky. Most Sparks install domestic stuff "off by heart" doing the same on this one as they did on the last one or the one a month ago. Even the on site guides a recipe book. When did you guys do a cable calc last.
    Trust me making all this rubbish a closed shop won't make you rich. Domestic wiring isisimple simple simple.
     
  14. Bob Rathbone

    Bob Rathbone Screwfix Select

    I agree with your point, but get ready for some flack off others on this site!
     
  15. Cecilb70

    Cecilb70 Active Member

    Why would they give me flack for being honest. I struggle to understand exactly which qualifications I need. The process is much more complicated than actually rewiring ( I'm a tech guy not a red tape guy)
    As far as the maths go that's just the truth. Most electrical calculations are o level standard. If you think your a spark only doing domestic work then think on.
    One very experienced self employed spark I know isn't a member of any organisation and is really ignorant of the rules( saying it's a bit of a grey area) the point being he's rewired hundreds of houses any no issues.none. I'd rather him do my house than anyone working for a big company whose boss is cerificated though.
     

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