Wire Madness

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Ryles, Jun 12, 2018.

  1. robertpstubbs

    robertpstubbs Member

    OP is confused about what he his doing. But even himself suggests blue and brown may be mixed up.

    How can anybody say how wiring should be connected if they don't know what all 4 sets of T+E do.

    I merely enquired as to what they do, and asked whether a fan was involved as likely in a bathroom.
     
  2. robertpstubbs

    robertpstubbs Member

    As OP said "half the upstairs lights aren't working" it is possible that there is just a problem with the downstream connections from the bathroom rose. OP also questioned why there were so many connections and I gave one possible explanation.
     
  3. rogerk101

    rogerk101 Active Member

    If the first photo in the group above is the new wiring and the other two photos are the old wiring then surely the problem is because the connectors in a connector strip are not connected together? Each of the four reds is screwed into their own hole in the connector block, but there's nothing interconnecting them. There need to be short hoop wires added to interconnect all four reds. Then the same for all four blacks.
     
  4. Bazza

    Bazza Well-Known Member

    NO NO NO
    that will short out the circuit through the switch when it is turned on!!
    See that black with the red sleeve? Would you like to guess what that is ?
     
  5. Ryles

    Ryles New Member

    all sorted!

    I guess what I was doing wrong was not connecting the live reds to the same terminal block. It's the first time I've seen one of these looped systems and I didn't understand how the perma live fed other lights on the circuit.

    The other wire was for the fan, both the light and fan are on separate pull switches.
    Thanks for all the replies and assistance though, much appreciated.

    hopefully no sofa for me again tonight ;)
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Josh.91

    Josh.91 Member

    As you say, live and Nuetral to light fitting are reversed at the rose. If a simple bulb and pendant / light fitting, although not right, this will have no effect and bulb will still light

    Can be dangerous with a screw cap bulb as outer part of lamp holder will now be live, instead of shielded center pin (again bulb will work, but bluddy dangerous

    Maybe get someone in next time..save you the sore neck eh...
     
  7. Ryles

    Ryles New Member

    oh i reversed the wiring so the switched live is to live and all 3 neutrals went to the neutral on the fitting.
    Not sure what possessed the previous owner to wire it up the other way around, there is no fault with the existing wiring. Tested the fitting and it appears safe.

    you've gotta have a crack at these things or you'll never learn, I need to replace about 5 other lights in the house so at least I understand what the setup is now, would get expensive to get someone in for them all!
     
  8. Josh.91

    Josh.91 Member

    you've gotta have a crack at these things or you'll never learn, I need to replace about 5 other lights in the house so at least I understand what the setup is now, would get expensive to get someone in for them all![/QUOTE]

    Lol that's close to a week on the sofa!
     
  9. Bazza

    Bazza Well-Known Member

    You should get to see England eliminated from the footie then!
     
    Josh.91 likes this.
  10. robertpstubbs

    robertpstubbs Member

    For those not toilet trained, it has long been good practice (and probably a legal requirement) to fit fans in bathrooms with no openable windows.

    Obviously sparks normally used to wire the fan through the light switch - to save the cost of another switch and more cable.

    50 years ago 240V fans were situated in places that are no longer considered safe. Therefore it is very common when fans fail or bathrooms are updated, for fans to be relocated and/or replaced with LV ones. Often this can result in redundant wiring being left in place.

    When coming across a bathroom light with 4 lots of T+E, I found that one led to loose cable under a bath with leaking seals. I took the opportunity to simplify the connections at the light.

    (Fortunately does not seem to be an issue in this case.)
     
  11. Pollowick

    Pollowick Well-Known Member

    At least there is a chance - eliminated on 15 July!

    Unlike Scotland, Wales, N Ireland, Italy, and many many more !
     
  12. peter palmer

    peter palmer Well-Known Member

    I've just wired and fitted 5 fans in a renovation project, all 5 of them were wired via the light switch, am I doing something wrong?
     
  13. robertpstubbs

    robertpstubbs Member

    Assuming you are using an isolator switch, you are probably doing it right under current Regs.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  14. peter palmer

    peter palmer Well-Known Member

  15. seneca

    seneca Screwfix Select

    I installed an extractor fan in a bathroom yesterday, they wanted an independent pull switch for it so simple enough job feeding from the lighting circuit, then I realised it had a 16th. edition c/unit so no rcd protection on that circuit. Luckily there was a spare way on the rcd side so I swapped the mcb to that side and all was well! It was a ceiling fan so outside of zones so I suppose many people wouldn't have bothered but I thought it best especially as it was a notifiable job.
     
  16. DIYDave.

    DIYDave. Well-Known Member

    I guess that when you looked at wiring in ceiling rose, you didn’t realise that each set of 3 terminals is actually joined, thinking that each connection is independent to the next ?

    And that’s what you replicated in the choc bloc - no wonder you had no lights !!

    Pleased uv got it sorted, every day is a learning day so as you say, next light change will be a total pleasure :)
     
    seneca likes this.
  17. seneca

    seneca Screwfix Select

    I looked at those pics several times Dave and they did look as though they were separate as the brass connector strip wasn't visible so I did wonder if he thought they were separate, that's why I said at the beginning to put the wires into connector blocks!
     
  18. DIYDave.

    DIYDave. Well-Known Member


    I looked quickly at pics Sen but didn’t take too much notice

    See pic where OP has used a choc bloc, 4 reds all in seperate strips :eek:

    So that’s gonna be the problem :)

    I’m not being smug as I’m only diy me but, always loads of lighting problems on the forum

    Peeps always seem amazed when they unscrew the rose and find ‘a crazy amount of wires’ !!!!!! :D

    Have a good day one and all
     

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