Wired Alarm System-problems getting it to work

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by unphased, May 8, 2018.

  1. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Good evening, I've returned from a taxing and frustrating day trying to refresh an old wired alarm system. The panel is an old OptimaXM wired to four PIRs, a door contact and a PA button plus the bellbox. I successfully installed a new Texecom bellbox after (eventually) figuring out the connections. I removed the PA key and looped it out on the panel because the customer no longer wanted it, and swapped out the four PIRs with Texecom compact IRs. Installed a new panel battery. All the wiring was similar to the existing detectors, +/-, N/C, tamper loop. The only odd part about the wiring to the PIRs was each PIR had the same wiring colours, however, at the panel, two of the zones were changed from the expected red/yellow used on the alarm loop to brown/orange. I saw that 8-core wires had been shared on two of the zones but didn't understand why. So clearly there was a joint in the wiring that I wouldn't have a hope of finding.

    When I came to doing the tests the bell tested out, the strobe tested out, but, the PIRs weren't registering at all. Initially I had them all jumpered for EOL wiring on 1k resistor range and did the same for tamper loops, only because that was the suggested setting for Honeywell as per the instructions and Honeywell took over Optima. Only one PIR was picking up movement and the LED was flicking on and off as it should, the others were just 'dead'. They would not walk test, any of them. I checked for power in each one and it was present. The walk test on this panel is similar to Texecoms it beeps when you trigger the zone and stops beeping when it shuts off. So, I phoned Texecom support and whilst understandably they couldn't help me with the panel they did suggest that because its an 'old' panel it probably isn't designed for EOL wiring so to remove all the jumper links and tried it without. Now three of the PIR zones were just permanently triggering in walk test and I could not get this corrected. I feel sure that the Texecom detectors should work on this panel but for some reason the movement isn't being detected. I had to leave site with the panel in day mode but not usable.

    Driving home I was racking my brains to think what could be causing this and thought perhaps it could be the change in the wiring in the system. I think I am right in thinking the N/C alarm terminals aren't polarity sensitive? But, I thought I could be inadvertently series wiring three of the detectors if I don't know how the join has been done brown to red or brown to yellow? Is that a possibility? I thought perhaps switching round the red and yellow on the detectors could solve it but I'm not sure. I cant see that its a compatibility issue?

    I am not clear what to do. I said I would try to find some newer versions of the Optima detectors to change for the Texecom ones, presumably now Honeywell, but, I can't really see how they would be materially different in operation to Texecoms? I think it has to be something to do with the mixing of the two colours in the alarm wiring.

    What do others think?
     
  2. Hollie

    Hollie Member

    You shouldn't really be having a go at something you don't really know about! Especially for an unsuspecting paying customer. My advice is to get someone in who actually knows what they're doing.
     
  3. Hollie

    Hollie Member

    Yeah clearly!
     
  4. Hollie

    Hollie Member

    IMG_2200.jpg
    Is this your handy work by any chance?
     
  5. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Troll, straight on my ignore list. Girls name.
     
  6. Hollie

    Hollie Member

    Why not answer the question?...Embarrassed?
     
  7. jonathanc

    jonathanc Active Member

    ok so on reading your post I started to suspect it is some mix up in the original wiring. As you say, you've got the bellbox working but there is something odd within the PIR cables. If it were me I would be testing each cable to check for continuity - completely map out what goes where for each colour in the existing wiring and go from there. I'd start on the most convenient PIR that is not currently working and get that running - then on to the next

    I hope that helps
     
  8. jonathanc

    jonathanc Active Member

    oh and Mr unphased, can I please apologise. I did try to post my thoughts as quickly as possible in the hope that you would find them helpful. however I see that another member of the forum has posted before me to share their years of experience and wisdom working with alarms. Something I sadly lack so I wholeheartly apologise if my post is not as helpful as it could be, at least I tried
     
  9. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Thank you, Jonathon. I agree I think it has to be something to do with the wiring continuity between the red and yellow in the PIR changing to brown and orange in the panel. I know it has to be simple. I've changed none of the wiring just got this one issue to resolve.
     
  10. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Well-Known Member

    Hi UP

    Any before and after photo's?

    Kind regards
     
  11. Lectrician

    Lectrician Screwfix Select

    If the red lights are not working on the PIRs, there is no power to them, possibly reverse polarity. The NC contacts open with no power.
     
  12. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Not yet, mate, I'll get some after I've been back.
     
  13. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    That's what I don't get, Lec. I used the +/- exactly as the ones I took off. They'd used white as + and green as -0V. I got 12V across the terminals with my fluke, so, power is there. I was losing the will to live by then anyway. Can't think straight under those circumstances. So I am wrong in my thinking that the N/C contacts wiring is causing the issue? It has to be +/-?
     
  14. Lectrician

    Lectrician Screwfix Select

    NC and tamper can be any way around. Only the 12v is polarity conscious. If the 12v is present, the PIR should work, even if the panel can’t respond to it.
     
  15. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Then I don't know where to go from here. I can't do anything different to what I have already done.
     
  16. Lectrician

    Lectrician Screwfix Select

    The 12v is fed from the correct aux supply? Not from a low current transistorised output? Correct polarity for sure? Your meter will show polarity. Definitely correct colours? You could see volts if you crossed your pairs, for example your green/white being connected to 0v and a zone terminal.
     
  17. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    The pairs are all plaited, so I've definitely not mixed those. There is only one place to take power from on the panel and I'm sure its sourced there. If you Google Optima XM the manual comes up as a link, page 7 shows the panel wiring diagram. 13V output +/-. However, thinking back, the tamper loops are odd. The tampers are looped using black/blue wires but neither are taken from the tamper loop terminals on the panel. That is looped out.
     
  18. Lectrician

    Lectrician Screwfix Select

    13v terminals look correct. The PIRs do have a jumper to disable the onboard LED, perhaps this is in the wrong place. Doesn't explain why the panel is not seeing them though.
     
  19. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Yes, your right. There is a jumper in the PIR to choose whether LEDs are 'on' or 'off' and I double checked all of those. I am liking your theory of polarity on the PIRs. It has to be something really simple because I've just swapped like for like. It has to be installer error. I changed nothing in the panel.
     
  20. Lectrician

    Lectrician Screwfix Select

    Most alarm companies use different colours. Around here though I tend to see the most common is White : 12v, Green : 0v, Red/Yellow : Alarm, Blue/Black : Tamper. Orange/Brown can be used as an extra alarm, sharing the tamper in series. Your panel won't use resistors. Resistors are more secure and allow the tamper and alarm to be signalled by a single pair, which means a 6 core cable can loop past two detectors, and each detector report as a its own zone for both alarm and tamper.
     

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