Wiring in a Shower Pump Under the bath

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by AlwaysPondering, Sep 28, 2011.

  1. AlwaysPondering

    AlwaysPondering New Member

    I'm about to wire in a shower pump. The pump is location under the bath as there is no other place for it to go.

    Anyway, in an ideal world the flex from the pump would be long enough to get out of the bathroom and into another room to be pluged it. Yes is has a normal 3 pin UK plug on it.

    Now my mate wired in his a year or so ago, and just cut the molded plug off and connected it to more cable using a waterproof connect, then off to the RCD spur.

    I was looking to do the same, but he has had a few issues with the pump (seals leaking) and got some grief for having cut off the plug. So I'd rather keep the plug attached.

    My understand is that as long as access to under the bath is by the use of tools, then this is considered outside of any zone?  And hence I could put a socket in it. If that was the case I'd prob still look at a RCD waterproof socket, just in case the worst happened

    My only other idea has been to make up a new power flex to the pump (looked and inside is only spade connectors - which I've got loads of already), then I could make that as long as I wanted to reach into another room.

    Any other ideas

    Cheers all
  2. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie New Member

    I think Always Pondering has gone to a forum where he gets answers and not arguement.
  3. Lokkars Daisy

    Lokkars Daisy New Member

    There are plenty of forums for answers Eddie, we endeavour to keep the Screwfix forum at a higher level, creme de la creme .
  4. madhatter1uk

    madhatter1uk Screwfix Select

    As its under the bath it is outside the zones and no longer a special location. It may be a socket but you're using it as a junction box to avoid cutting the plug off. I'd use a ip*6 ip*7 socket. cable tie it closed.. you can put an RCD on it if you want but its always best to cover the whole circuit with an rcd. Where is the feed coming from ? Wouldn'i it be cheaper to fit one in the board or fit an RCBO. ? You should have access to RCD's for perioding testing by the end user. And one under the bath wouldn't be accesible for testing or resetiing. 
  5. coloumb2

    coloumb2 New Member

    Yet another haircut! This is worse than the Greece deficit!
  6. spinlondon

    spinlondon Screwfix Select

    As I said before, socket-outlets are prohibited within 3m of the boundary of zone 1.
    Whilst the space under a bath or shower is considered outside of the zones if it is only acessible by the use of a tool, it is within 3m of the boundary of zone 1.
    As such the installation of a socket-outlet in the space under a bath or shower is prohibited by Regulation 701.512.3.
    It is not prohibited because the space under the bath is zone 1. The space is clearly outside of the zones.
    It is prohibited because it is not more than 3m away from the bath.
    If you've got nothing constructive to post Lucy, why not go and write some graffiti on some toilet doors somewhere?
  7. removed 7

    removed 7 New Member

    Groundhog Day........
  8. removed 7

    removed 7 New Member

    4,672 views. Fewer than 10 replies.  Something doesn't add up.......

  9. madhatter1uk

    madhatter1uk Screwfix Select

    As I have said and had deleted 3 times now. You are correct but in my opinion it could be dealt with via a departure from the regulation as in my opinion it does not create a danger if it is screwed behind a panel. and on an RCD. It is up to the person doing the work to decide if its an increased danger. If you think it may be and there's a risk of the panel being removed to connect other equipment then don't use a socket outlet.

    Moderators stop deleting posts that make advice given previously in posts legal and safe.
  10. Lokkars Daisy

    Lokkars Daisy New Member

    INCORRECT! the three meter rule obviously isn't intended to apply to an OUT OF ZONE
  11. coloumb2

    coloumb2 New Member

    So why is it ok to put a socket outside the bathroom door within 3m of zone1 but not under the bath accesible only by use of a tool? I know which one I would use if I wanted to dry my hair...
  12. spinlondon

    spinlondon Screwfix Select

    Madhatter, you could deal with it as a departure, if you as the designer can confirm that the degree of safety would be no less than if there was no socket-outlet under the bath.
    Could you guarantee that no one would ever use that socket-outlet under the bath to connect anything other than the shower pump?

    Lokk are you aware that zone 3 no longer exists?
    Zone 3 used to extend up to 3m from the boundary of zone 1.
    As such anywhere that used to be in zone 3 is now outside of the zones.
    Of course the 3m rule applies outside of the zones, 3m is well outside of the zones it is in fact 2.4m from the nearest zone.
    If it wasn't intended to apply outside of the zones, why bother with stipulating 3m, why not just stipulate outside of the zones?

    Coloumb2, it is ok to put a socket-outlet outside the bathroom door within 3m of zone 1, because that would be outside of the location.
    The space under the bath is within the location.
    The requirements that apply to a special location, do not apply outside of that special location.
  13. coloumb2

    coloumb2 New Member

    Where is this stated?
  14. coloumb2

    coloumb2 New Member

    So where is the reg that prevents you having an accessible socket within the zone outside a door?
  15. coloumb2

    coloumb2 New Member

    And why is it OK to install anything without an ip rating other than a socket under the bath?
  16. spinlondon

    spinlondon Screwfix Select

    I'm not aware that it is specifically stated anywhere, why would it need to be.

    I don't know, where is the Regulation that prevents you having an accessible socket-outlet within a zone outside of a door?
    You tell me.

    I also don't know why it is OK to install anything without an IP rating other than a socket-outlet under the bath.
    I'm not aware that such is the case.
    The protective measure of obstacles and placing out of reach are not permitted, which indicates that some measure of IP rating is required.
    The minimum IP rating for equipment in zone 0 is IPX7, the minimum IP rating for equipment in zones 1 & 2 is IPX4.
    Outside of the zones, there is no minimum requirements other than those required by the general Regulations, such as the top horizontal surface being IPX4 and vertical surfaces being IPX2.
  17. sinewave

    sinewave Screwfix Select

    Socket outlet, IP rated or not is fine under a Bath Panel that is removable with the use of a Tool, however a lot of panels nowadays just use clips and thus would complicate the letter of the 'Law' yet further.

    As Looche has already stated putting an RCD sox under a Bath is daft as resetting it would prove tiresome.

    Best design is an RCD FCU from outside the Bathroom feeding a single gang Sox mounted on a side panel or wall under bath which allows the molded plug to be kept and if there were a leak the sox is off the deck and extremely unlikely to become wet as any leak will be from the drain or overflow which will no doubt direct water to the floor long before it would reach an elevated socket.

    Mountain outa a Mole 'ill again! 
  18. coloumb2

    coloumb2 New Member

    Ok folks, I emailed the IEE! They say socket under the bath is A OK!!!!

    spin mate, chuck up a throwaway email address and i'll forward thier reply to you.
  19. spinlondon

    spinlondon Screwfix Select

  20. coloumb2

    coloumb2 New Member

    You have mail!

    Hopefully this will put an end to it

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