Worktop joint.

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by sunflower1, Jan 24, 2020.

?

Is this acceptable?

  1. Yes

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. No

    20 vote(s)
    100.0%
  1. sunflower1

    sunflower1 New Member

    The sink and hob have both been fitted. :(

    there is like literally 2mm extra to play with on one the side. so not hopeful.
     
  2. WillyEckerslike

    WillyEckerslike Screwfix Select

    New worktops then I'm afraid.
     
  3. sunflower1

    sunflower1 New Member

    Nightmare!

    Even fitted my kitchen with the protective plastic on and then mastic over it!!!! :mad:
     
  4. Muzungu

    Muzungu Screwfix Select

  5. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    @sunflower1 - have you paid for this yet? please tell me you haven't.
     
  6. Severntrent

    Severntrent Screwfix Select

    I'm only a DIYer but here is a butt joint, albeit a small one, I made when carefully removing edging strip I would expect your builder to do as good or use a mitre joint
    IMG_20200124_190017097.jpg
     
  7. Kevin Ralph965

    Kevin Ralph965 New Member

    That's a manerver worktop isn't it? That should not look like that, he hasn't even glued the joint
     
  8. CGN

    CGN Screwfix Select

    upload_2020-1-25_23-40-29.jpeg
     
    Abrickie likes this.
  9. metrokitchens

    metrokitchens Screwfix Select

    Looks like a high gloss laminate with thick pvc edging. Has the sparkly silver bits in it.

    Needs removing completely and re doing with small 10mm mitre joints bolted together. Use matching Colourfill joint glue.

    Probably going to need to replace at least one worktop. Rough sketch with lengths on would help.

    Reckon if you are lucky you may get it done for £250 cash if you shop about. But I’m in London here and would charge £400.
     
    barbaricduck and Mr Rusty like this.
  10. barbaricduck

    barbaricduck Active Member

    Agree pretty much completely metro but as you say more info needed.
    Given that there are upstand there may possibly be enough to gain the 10mm or so needed to mitre it - especially if the backs of the tops are tight against walls.. Get a proper fitter in to have a look..
     
  11. jimoz

    jimoz Screwfix Select

    Remember the old days 50 pound a joint. That's rough as a badgers ****. Replace and do 10mm mitre
     
  12. sunflower1

    sunflower1 New Member

    1 1000x602x38 Worktop Crystal White Crystal White | Crystal White Matt Width: 1000mm x Depth: 602mm | A: Square corner detail | B: No corner detail | C: No corner detail | D: No corner detail
    £300.00
    1 2000x602x38 Worktop Crystal White Crystal White | Crystal White Matt Width: 2000mm x Depth: 602mm | A: No corner detail | B: No corner detail | C: No corner detail | D: Square corner detail
    £546.00
    1 3000x602x38 Worktop Crystal White Crystal White | Crystal White Matt Width: 3000mm x Depth: 602mm | A: No corner detail | B: No corner detail | C: No corner detail | D: No corner detail
    £744.00

    This is what was supplied by wrens.
     
  13. sunflower1

    sunflower1 New Member

    No, not as yet. We have held money back for a numerous amount of unsatisfactory work, he is now taken us to court.
     
  14. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    In which case you will need to create some specific points to defend the action. Although I believe you are on very solid ground regarding not paying for defective work, you do need to give him the opportunity to put it right. If you haven't written to him stating why you are unhappy and to ask him to rectify before you pay the balance, then do so. I think you will need to show that you have given every opportunity to complete the job to a satisfactory standard before withholding payment. It doesn't matter if he has already said he is not coming back - I think you need the evidence of the letter. Do you have legal expenses cover on your house insurance? it is worth contacting them if so - you may find you can get legal support that will help you. If not, I think it is worth talking to a solicitor - try and find a small practice you trust - it may be appropriate to counter claim simultaneously, but you need good legal advice. I am not a lawyer.

    Either way, don't get too stressed. You asked a tradesman to do a job, everyone here agrees it is not up to standard so there is no reason why you should pay for it. It might just give you a little hassle along the way to sort it out - but right is on your side.
     
  15. sunflower1

    sunflower1 New Member

    Thank you Mr Rusty,

    So much has happened on this project.

    I threw him off the project first, both parties then agreed he would come back and finish the work, he came back for a week, I asked him to rectify something and he basically said he could not accept liability for this or that. He then informed us he would not be returning and requested I pay him all the money. I have about £3000 worth of work to do so the project is completed, (Not including the worktops).

    Numerous problems, I am seeking advice on a few other matters on other forums too.

    No legal cover.

    I have spoke to a solicitor.

    I am currently getting in quotes for the outstanding work, and I have always said I would pay the builder the remaining money once I have a total and quotes of the work outstanding. I feel I have been completely reasonable given the situation.

    I am beyond stressed, it is a nightmare.
     
  16. jackelliott07

    jackelliott07 Active Member

    If you have evidence to support all of that, i wouldn't overly stress it.

    BUT that is VERY easy for us to all say sat on an internet forum and not actually living it.. just try to keep your head up and level.
     
  17. sunflower1

    sunflower1 New Member

    Yes, I have evidence of everything.

    Photos, Email and Text communications, Bank Statements (Yes he claimed we had insufficient funds to pay him!!), Invoices, Quotes from other tradesmen and builders.

    It is horrible as it is just hanging all over our heads.
     
  18. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    The best advice I can offer is to step back and line your ducks up. Everything always comes back in some form to the contract you have between you whether that is written(hopefully) or verbal. If it is not written it does work both ways though

    Builder offered to do something for a price. If it hasn't been done to a satisfactory standard then the contract is not fulfilled. Either he finishes it, or after being given an opportunity to do it, if it's still not done you get others to do it and sue him for the extra you have had to pay.

    Is any of the work under building control? Is any work electrical - you need at least certificate of minor works (or building control sign off). Is any of the work glazed windows/doors - you need similar FENSA certificate or sign off - same with gas. If anything is missing it gives you leverage.

    The problem with poor quality work is that it is subjective - you always need some supporting evidence that it is defective - other contractors, building control (maybe), even this thread will help.

    Don't stress about the court case - if it is as you say you should win easily. Don't forget that even in the worst possible scenario, in a small claims court you are not at risk of costs https://www.compactlaw.co.uk/free-legal-information/small-claims-court/claiming-costs.html, so even if the judgement went against you all you have to pay is the claimed amount (and maybe some small fees). You DO NOT get a CCJ if you lose a court case and then pay up, so don't let anyone threaten you with CCJ

    To summarize - give him one last opportunity in writing to complete the contract (say within 30 days) and sort out the problems. If he refuses, get someone else to finish it off. Raise a money claim online against him for the additional cost. Break the job down into specific subjects and have evidence/defense on each point.

    also see https://www.lawontheweb.co.uk/personal/building-mediation
     
  19. sunflower1

    sunflower1 New Member

    Mr Rusty,

    Thank you for your advice, I have been busy collecting everything and I have all this in a folder.

    I only ever received an estimate from him. No written contract, payment schedules or anything.

    His last invoice was queried, completion of this and that, yet nothing was completed? Work then was then challenged due to unsatisfactory work and he walks off the job.

    Builder has used independent builder inspector which he is pally with. Yes he has all certificates of mine and has informed me that he has instructed his building inspector to with hold my documents until I make full payment. I do have a gas certificate, but, that's it.

    He provided me with an electrician who he paid cash in hand, when the electrics were nearly finished he asked that I pay an additional £200 to get works signed off, but it is down to me to source a competent electrician as his electrician was unable to sign his own work off?? This is what I have been up against throughout this building work.

    I have continued to get quotes in from other builders, so I know that certain things need rectifying and finishing.

    Faulty products have also been installed in my home.
     
  20. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    Oh dear. OK, building control inspectors work for YOU not the builder, and it is not permitted to withhold certificates. I suggest that you phone your local council building control (ask for "Building control" not "planning") - or even better see if you can pop in and see them - they are in competition with the private people now so are much more accommodating. Explain the situation. It may be better to put a new building control application in yourself - it doesn't cost too much - to regain control. Your local council BC will also then visit and either approve what has been done or not. I don't know what you have had done - photos etc of any now hidden work may help. If building control say the work is not to standard, you have a perfect lever to 1) not pay 2) go after the builder.

    This is NOT your problem. Either an electrical contractor does the work and signs his own work off with certs OR the work is informed to building control first and then signed off by them (for a fee). Almost zero electricians will sign off someone else's work. It's quite easy - you tell your builder "no certificate, no payment". Write to him on this specific point and advise that you will pay for this element of the work once the appropriate certificate is issued. Council BC will be very interested to learn about cash-in-hand electricians doing work they cannot certify...

    This all sounds a terrible mess, and you do need some external support. Your council BC can possibly help advise what is good/bad according to standards but will not assist in any legal claims or pricing/design. Another builder will help you work out exactly what needs doing, or re-doing, to get to where you want to be - they can help you value the outstanding work. A solicitor will help you with the process of recovering damages from your original builder (maybe). Assuming you have written to the original builder giving him one last chance to finish off everything to a satisfactory and signed-off state so you can pay him, you may now need to cut your ties and split this project in two. Part 1 - get a new team, with new BC and move forward to completion. Part 2, look backwards to try and recover whatever you can from the poor work.

    FWIW my stepbrother has been through almost exactly this recently. Builder #1 came recommended and just did everything wrong. Council BC refused to sign work off, had to get builder #2 to finish off and it went legal. He recovered some, but not all the money necessary to finish off. Painful experience, but in the end the job was done well.

    https://www.mylawyer.co.uk/disputes-over-building-work-a-A76052D76263/

    You've probably pretty much reached the limit of the general advice that can be given over a forum! good luck and post back with what happens.....
     

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