240v 16amp garage supply

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by veneerman, Apr 24, 2015.

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  1. Rulland

    Rulland Screwfix Select

    Hence your advice, and so why exactly are you here RS if only to advise not to diy, catch 22, lol.
     
    Rulland, Apr 24, 2015
    #21
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  2. stateit

    stateit Screwfix Select

    For volt-drop allowances,over 40m and 16A loading 4mm T&E is a minimum, but you wouldn't run 4mm T&E for 40m in conduit. It's not suitable. You'd use SWA cable. You certainly wouldn't use 2.5mm in a ring, as it would be impossible to put down a conduit. As would a single run of 2.5mm T&E be to put down 40m of conduit. You'd bury SWA in the ground.

    Using volt=drop calculations, 2.5mm SWA for a 16A 'power' load would suffice, but not if you are using lighting as well in your shed. 4mm SWA is needed.

    A 'rough-and-ready' calculator is available here: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/Charts/VoltageDrop.html

    3.7kW is the figure you need to input for 16A load.
     
    stateit, Apr 24, 2015
    #22
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  3. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    Isn't it easier to use singles in conduit?
     
    chippie244, Apr 24, 2015
    #23
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  4. Risteard

    Risteard Screwfix Select

    Absolutely. It's what conduit is designed for. Twin and skin has no business being in conduit.
     
    Risteard, Apr 25, 2015
    #24
    veneerman likes this.
  5. Deleted member 33931

    Deleted member 33931 Guest

    Ok Veneerman, fair do's.

    This is a reasonably big job in terms of materials cost and awkwardness. So while you are at it - for the relatively little extra cost - would it not be better to upgrade from the measly 2.5T&E supply to the garage with its potential for only using a single tool/item of equipment at a time?

    Where was this conduit going to run - alongside a fence? I think (but don't know for sure) that the 'proper' stuff - SWA - could be run just the same as your conduit (ie - no conduit necessary) and not even buried; it could be clipped to a fence or similar. It might even be that, provided it isn't in a location where it's likely to be dug up, it can be laid in a shallow trench - whatever depth you can manage. Probably with yellow warning tape above.

    Perhaps pros can confirm?

    In which case you can hopefully still do the donkey work and the sparks will only need to tie up each end.
     
    Deleted member 33931, Apr 25, 2015
    #25
  6. veneerman

    veneerman New Member

    Great info ! (thank you) the sad thing is it took me a day to put the coduit up and a day to thread it in (it was not the best job) i am kind of stuck with the conduit though ..... there is no way i could do it underground it would be thousands. i cant really do it any other way. i had a friend of a friend who builds things for space equipment come round and have a look and just so happens he used to be an electrician and as the next comment below he did say about singles and you could earth it another way ( is that right ? ). the cable was a nightmare to do and i wont even mention all the elbows. the frustrating thing is i can do all the donkey work myself conduit/sockets/lights etc but it is just about getting the wiring and hook up right. i will check the link and i am still looking up other bits. can i ask you a question ..... my main fuse box is pretty old and there has been electric running to a shed from an 30amp rccb which runs off the main consumer unit. can i use this as a start point ? i now know what cable to run but i am not sure what goes on each end. i would like two circuits one for the larger equipment and one for the normal 13 amp sockets. do i need another c/u in the garage ? to split them. any other advice on what needs to be at each end would be great.

    Thank you for your reply much appreciated !
     
    veneerman, Apr 25, 2015
    #26
  7. veneerman

    veneerman New Member

    just found this out today ............. :-( thanks for the info i do understand why i would never want to do that after i did it lol what a pain in the --- what do you use as an earth and would it be at the garage end ?

    thanks for the help !
     
    veneerman, Apr 25, 2015
    #27
  8. veneerman

    veneerman New Member


    Yeah you are dead right ! i wish i had just looked at more info from the start as i have caused myself a lot more work really. i was told run 4-6 and lean towards the six swa. i ran the conduit over six foot high where i could all along my house and sealed all the joints too :-( and had to drop it to the fence as there is no other way around it. i have a good neighbour which is a bonus though. just to double check with you .... you dont need conduit for swa ?. the other thing that was mentioned was using singles i was told that they do it like that a lot. hence why it took me ages to put the cable through the conduit. the shallow dig is a great idea but there is more concrete than soil which makes it an even bigger job.

    and although i wont use more than one machine at a time i would like to have the extra power just in case it came up or i am running it for a long period.

    thanks for the reply and the info ! very helpful and feel like i am getting some where :)
     
    veneerman, Apr 25, 2015
    #28
  9. Deleted member 33931

    Deleted member 33931 Guest

    Hi Veneerman.

    I think SWA is ok exposed to sunlight so, yes, it's ok to have it exposed. It is, to all intents, a cable covered in flexible steel conduit.

    Even tho' technically it could also be buried just a couple of inches deep to hide it (I don't think any regs actually 'disallow' this), it obviously wouldn't be good practice as it's obviously more susceptible to being accidentally damaged as no-one would know it's there. So, if it cannot be buried deep, then it's best to not have it buried at all - in fact to almost make it obvious where it is. (Unless it can be shallow-buried where future disturbance is very unlikely, and it's also covered in warning tape.)

    So, the route you've taken with your conduit would be equally fine for your SWA.

    Once you decide to go SWA, then absolutely go larger than you currently need - 6mm should be good for most garagy things. Our hosts have a keen price on this stuff.
     
    Deleted member 33931, Apr 25, 2015
    #29
  10. retiredsparks

    retiredsparks Super Member

    I am here to learn and share technical information with other new/experienced sparks....not to encourage rank DIYers to kill themselves, pets or family members.
    I do not like advising people to attempt SAFETY CRITICAL work which is totally outside their understanding, ability and scope.
    The Op obviously has no idea what he is doing electrically...and has embarked on a job...which is way beyond him.
    He has no way of testing it...and is committing a criminal act.
    He is also depriving the local qualified registered sparks of work.
    Hope this clarifies the situation and viewpoint.
    RS
     
    retiredsparks, Apr 25, 2015
    #30
  11. Deleted member 33931

    Deleted member 33931 Guest

    Very clear :)
     
    Deleted member 33931, Apr 25, 2015
    #31
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  12. retiredsparks

    retiredsparks Super Member

    Thanks DA.....I was hoping not to have to explain further....lol
    Rs
     
    retiredsparks, Apr 25, 2015
    #32
  13. veneerman

    veneerman New Member

    Rank ? lol ..... why would i kill myself ? and it's not a criminal offence at all ! (as long as it is adhere's to the rules and is then checked by a qualified person. i put my post up to check if i was on the right lines. and even with the 2.5 mm and roughly 37 meters of it i have been told by 3 different qualified electricians that the cable would be ok but not ideal. as for the rcb's and consumer units etc i didn't really get that right but... it was an old book and i wouldn't hook up anything unless i was certain it was safe. which is why it has not moved forward any more. i have a qualified sparky coming round to look at it and give me a quote. to do the c/u in the garage sockets lights etc. he has said the cable will be fine. and he will run full test's to see if and how hot cables and machines get etc.

    1. why would i kill myself and others (i can only presume listening to you would push me to killing myself)
    2. why am i rank (has screwfix invested in smellavision)
    3.not outside my understanding (i just dont understand yet) hence the post !
    4. ability and scope ! (just rude)
    5. way beyond me ? (what do you know apart from arrogance)
    6. i can get a sparky to test it i believe
    7.the only thing criminal are people who charge 25 quid for a quote.
    8. i bet you paint your own house i wonder if your doing decorators out of work ?

    you dont know me from adam and to judge me like that is just rude. i have many qualifications and understand many things once i have looked into them fully. you how ever as it is plain to see are a **** !
     
    veneerman, Apr 25, 2015
    #33
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  14. Rulland

    Rulland Screwfix Select

    Touche.

    Waits with baited breath for other hypocrites with brown noses to pipe up, lol.
     
    Rulland, Apr 25, 2015
    #34
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  15. Rulland

    Rulland Screwfix Select

    Hardly applicable as you obviously know it all.
     
    Rulland, Apr 25, 2015
    #35
    veneerman likes this.
  16. Deleted member 33931

    Deleted member 33931 Guest

    Veneerman, now look what you've done... :rolleyes:
     
    Deleted member 33931, Apr 25, 2015
    #36
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  17. veneerman

    veneerman New Member

    lol ...... sorry but that was below the belt :)
     
    veneerman, Apr 25, 2015
    #37
  18. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    DA likes it down there :p:p:p
     
    chippie244, Apr 25, 2015
    #38
    FatHands and veneerman like this.
  19. veneerman

    veneerman New Member

    veneerman, Apr 26, 2015
    #39
  20. retiredsparks

    retiredsparks Super Member

    It only 'appears' that I know it all...from the standpoint of people who know nothing or very little.
    Arrogance mixed with ignorance is a dangerous combination.
    I refuse to apologise for being more skilled and knowing more than the company I am in.
    RS
     
    retiredsparks, Apr 26, 2015
    #40
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