Air brick exposed to cavity

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by macadonald, Oct 6, 2007.

  1. macadonald

    macadonald New Member

    Hi there,

    I posted a topic on this forum earlier this year regarding condensation we had on the interior of 2 external walls in the bedroom of our ground floor flat. We had a surveyor confirm it wasn't rising damp too. I have installed the extractor fan in the bathroom and removed bottled gas heating etc. I am currently installing Warmalite insullation on the inside of these 2 walls to try to stop them getting too cold in winter, so all in all I think I am moving towards a solution.

    The bedroom has 2 air bricks, one at the top on one at the bottom. I have just taken the covers off of these and noticed that the bottom air brick is open to the cavity in the wall. Surely this should be sealed so that the outside air being introduced only moves into the room and not into the cavity. I would imagine that introducing cold air into the cavity defeats the purpose of the cavity and essentially makes my inside wall an outside wall (colder) and hence more condensation.

    Please can someone let me know if my concerns are valid?

    Thanks

    Maca
     
  2. ­

    ­ New Member

    Air bricks should be ducted through the cavity so the air goes directly to where it was intended.
     
  3. Charlie Far!ey

    Charlie Far!ey New Member

    Its your cavity thats the problem here - Its blocked or is got snots in the ties. Take out some corner bricks and look inside the cavity in the effected areas with a strong torch. Make a tool to reach in and prod off any snots that you can see and I'll wager that there is more than snots too.

    Ignore the idiot above (verystupiman - he hasnt got a clue - fixed up some shelves once and thinks hes a builder)

    Air in the cavity is good and its intended purpose to boot. Modern air bricks are moulded as a duct but thats to maintain structural integrity in the product. The inner leaf + cavity + insulation (if included) + outer leaf = heat conductance. You have something in your cavity that is allowing moisture to span it and I bet it is snots on the ties. Air in the cavity should have alleviated that but it hasnt so it is being conveyed across on another medium namely snot - Look there first

    Ties are made to prevent moisture being tansmitted and have either a twist of wire which allows it to drip down the cavity or convulutions to allow it to collate and fall off into the cavity and air dries it out - It isnt doing that.

    Im assuming you havent got plants or stuff on the outer leaf and that it is open to the air as well.

    Best of luck
    Charlie
     
  4. bigjules

    bigjules New Member

    Its your cavity thats the problem here - Its blocked
    or is got snots in the ties. Take out some corner
    bricks and look inside the cavity in the effected
    areas with a strong torch. Make a tool to reach in
    and prod off any snots that you can see and I'll
    wager that there is more than snots too.

    Ignore the idiot above (verystupiman - he hasnt got a
    clue - fixed up some shelves once and thinks hes a
    builder)

    Air in the cavity is good and its intended purpose to
    boot. Modern air bricks are moulded as a duct but
    thats to maintain structural integrity in the
    product. The inner leaf + cavity + insulation (if
    included) + outer leaf = heat conductance. You have
    something in your cavity that is allowing moisture to
    span it and I bet it is snots on the ties. Air in
    the cavity should have alleviated that but it hasnt
    so it is being conveyed across on another medium
    namely snot - Look there first

    Ties are made to prevent moisture being tansmitted
    and have either a twist of wire which allows it to
    drip down the cavity or convulutions to allow it to
    collate and fall off into the cavity and air dries it
    out - It isnt doing that.

    Im assuming you havent got plants or stuff on the
    outer leaf and that it is open to the air as well.

    Best of luck
    Charlie

    Likes the sounf of his own voice, doesn't h??
     
  5. Mr Kipling

    Mr Kipling New Member

    Macaconald.
    When you installed fan and got rid of bottle gas heating did it have much effect? (also don't use parafin heating).

    I would suggest condenstation, if that is what it is, is caused by moist air settling on a cool surface. In which case you need to dry the air, warm the surface or both. So, you have already started to dry the air, what about cavity wall insulation to warm the surface?????

    As for the air brick, Is it above or below damp course? Do you have wooden floors down stairs? If below damp and wooden floors then it should be spanning the cavity to ensure ventilation under the floor. Or is it a previous persons bodge to try and cure your problem? IE orrigional brick or newly fitted.

    A few things to think about for ya.

    Come on guys, shoot me down ;)
     
  6. ­

    ­ New Member

    > Its your cavity thats the problem here - Its blocked
    or is got snots in the ties. Take out some corner
    bricks and look inside the cavity in the effected
    areas with a strong torch. Make a tool to reach in
    and prod off any snots that you can see and I'll
    wager that there is more than snots too.

    Ignore the idiot above (verystupiman - he hasnt got a
    clue - fixed up some shelves once and thinks hes a
    builder)

    Air in the cavity is good and its intended purpose to
    boot. Modern air bricks are moulded as a duct but
    thats to maintain structural integrity in the
    product. The inner leaf + cavity + insulation (if
    included) + outer leaf = heat conductance. You have
    something in your cavity that is allowing moisture to
    span it and I bet it is snots on the ties. Air in
    the cavity should have alleviated that but it hasnt
    so it is being conveyed across on another medium
    namely snot - Look there first

    Ties are made to prevent moisture being tansmitted
    and have either a twist of wire which allows it to
    drip down the cavity or convulutions to allow it to
    collate and fall off into the cavity and air dries it
    out - It isnt doing that.

    Im assuming you havent got plants or stuff on the
    outer leaf and that it is open to the air as well.

    Best of luck
    Charlie



    Bwahahahahaaaaaa! What a load of piffle! So your wonderful emigration to the land of paradise is sooooooo boring that you're back on s/fix peddling your drivel!

    Like the sound of your own voice? *

    [Edited by: admin5]
     
  7. Charlie Far!ey

    Charlie Far!ey New Member

    ....I reat my case you scam artist
     
  8. macadonald

    macadonald New Member

    Thanks Guys,

    Always good to see a bit of banter...back to the problem though.. I had a look down the cavity and have noticed a fair bit of rubble/debri build up.. I guess this is because I am ground floor and any work done over the 'many' yrs the building has been standing above me, has resulted in stuff falling down to about 1m in height.

    I can imagine this could be a problem if it resulted in aiding in moisture transferrign across the cavity, but like I said originally I had an expert confirm it was not rising damp and believe him because there has never been paint peeling or any other signs of rising damp. It is purely moisture on the inside during the night.

    I also looked at the ties and thewse are twisted and doe not appear to have snots (guessing these are moisture drops).

    I must say though, my new insulation lining I put on these walls has made them very warm to the touch, so hopefully this will help..

    Should I bother having the rubble in the cavity removed if there is no dampness and should I bridge the bottom vaity?

    Macadonald
     
  9. Charlie Far!ey

    Charlie Far!ey New Member

    Hello mac
    snots are mortar droppings that are on the ties which would allow moisture to be retained on the tie and steadily allow it to transmit to the inner leaf instead of dripping off into the cavity where it is absorbed by the 'debris' and make it over that way
    condensation is caused when the temperature moment is at the dew point - Thats to say if a room is very cold and the outside hot you get condensation and vice versa as at one thermal moment in the disparity, the dew point occurs and only at that point. condensation can be created. There are two resolutions - 1 to prvent the dew point being achieved by insulating and ventilation of the inner leaf or 2 using air as an insulator by ensuring a clear air flow in the cavity

    In a bathroom this occurs frequently as the disparity is easily balanced at the dew point - The way you fix it is to open the window or bathroom door and this achieves the same thing - Air balances the temperatures so dew point cant be reached. Its not complicated its simply scientific fact. Air flow restrictions are your problem otherwise if it were the building fabric the rest of your house would be suffering and clearly it isnt
     
  10. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    Don't listen to chartlie fartley. He sounds impressive but talks rot because he doesn't even read what he is pasting. It is normally on a totally different subject to the question in hand.

    You will/would need one helluva lot of moisture to penetrate the outer brick, to be transferred across the wall ties. It would take something like a leaking gutter running down the wall, and even then it would be localised(only cut across a couple of ties) and matbe give the odd patch of damp indoors.

    Your vents, vents into the room (as you rightly say) from the outside and should not be venting in or out of the cavity.

    Your outside vents, obviously should(into the cavity but not the room).

    It would be normal for a cavity vent(outside) to be low down, and a room vent(straight through to outside) to be high. But it's not written in stone on the positions.


    The rubble build up in the cavity is the point.

    You say that you have been told that you don't have rising damp.

    Unfortunately, if that amount of rubble is in your cavity and above the damp-course, your inspector has got it wrong, and although he has told you you don't have rising damp, it may only allude to your brickwork/blockwork, and rising damp(including passage from outer to inner) may be in the rubble.
    Certainly if this rubble is above the dampcourse, and in cotact with both leaves, you have a problem that needs looking at again.


    Hope this helps.

    I ain't an expert, but I know CF talks dross.

    Mr. HandyAndy - really
     
  11. ­

    ­ New Member

    > Don't listen to chartlie fartley. He sounds

    I ain't an expert, but I know CF talks dross.

    Mr. HandyAndy - really[/b]

    Handy, you've gone up in my estimation. What a great judge of character.
     
  12. macadonald

    macadonald New Member

    Thanks Mr Handy Handy,

    I must say that all your comments are very much what I would expect. It looks liek the bottom vent may have been knocked through into the room at a later stage. It probably is meant to be a cavity air brick only. Bit worried to block this up though, coz I think I need all the air flow I can get. Old building with new double glazing.. hence restricted air natural air flow.

    Thanks again

    Maca
     

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