Any tips on insulating the inside of an external wall?

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by Whitling2k, Nov 24, 2016.

  1. Whitling2k

    Whitling2k Member

    Hey!

    I'm thinking of building a 47mm"x47mm" treated timber stud frame over an external wall - screwed directly to it, filling it with rockwool, installing a vapour barrier from the top to bottom, then PB/skim over the top.

    Any tips?

    I'm not convinced about the rockwool yet - thinking about using cellotex/kingspan instead.

    Wondering if I should drill some holes in the top horizontal to allow air into the ventilated attic?

    It's a double skinned wall, with some limited cavity insulation - mostly those blocks with polystyrene backing - feels very cold though, so I'm hoping this will minimise external heat loss.

    Am renovating anyways - the wall is currently a load of badly applied wallpaper and half ground-off cladding adhesive (attractive....).

    The wallpaper peels off in some places and needs chipping off in others. It was applied over an unscored silk paint... I Don't want to strip it all before plastering, so will overboard with mechanical attachment somehow anyway as a minimum. The paper and paint combo rules out adhesive without too much prep anyway.

    Any idea how it might impact sound insulation? Will solid wood screwed into the wall reduce sound insulation?

    Part of it's the wall between my house and next door - we have a dormer, they don't, so it's about 1.5m of external wall, then the rest is adjoined to their house.

    Would it be a better idea to lay a thin sheet of cellotex onto the wall, then vapor barrier, then screw the studs through the cellotex, then rockwool between the studs before finishing with PB/Skim.

    It's a big room, so loosing 15mm+47mm+12.5mm+skim isn't an issue; I'm moving rads and other services as well, so its not like any option will cause a massive(er) headache anyway.

    I'm not after doing in in the cheapest way possible either - I want to do it properly (and once!).

    Cheers!

    Whitling2k
     
  2. Dr Bodgit

    Dr Bodgit Super Member

    Various ways you could go about this.

    2x4 battens and infill with celotex is OK, the wood will act as a thermal bridge a bit but you can get quite deep insulation (90/95mm), then plasterboard over. Or rather than plasterboard, add PL4000 so more insulation and plasterboard in one.

    The easiest way would be to use 65mm +12.5 plasterboard thick PL4000, dot and dab fix, job done. A lot more expensive though, and only 65mm max insulation but a lot less hassle to put up.
     
    koolpc likes this.
  3. koolpc

    koolpc Super Member

    I agree with the dripping tap. :p

    I am going to insulate a big external wall and will be using PL4000 50MM with 12.5 plasterboard, dot and dab and mechanical fixing too.

    My last house i built a frame and infilled it with rockwool, then Vap barrier and then plasterboard. It was hard work and not cheap. I did all myself except for the skimming. I used 50mm rockwool. Made a big difference to the room as it was an external wall. WP_20141119_002.jpg WP_20141123_001.jpg WP_20141123_002.jpg WP_20141123_003.jpg

    Some pics of that for you:
     
  4. masterdiy

    masterdiy Screwfix Select

    Wheres ya pillow gone from the top of the step ladder?

    Have you left it in the wall!!!!
     
  5. koolpc

    koolpc Super Member

    I was hungry so i eat it. :oops:

    I had to use the pillow for my poor knees as i was also fitting 2 new rads myself on that wall.
     
  6. masterdiy

    masterdiy Screwfix Select

  7. winterdiy

    winterdiy Member

    I did our upstairs backroom in the same way as koolpc has shown in the pics above. He's right about the hard work, but it did make a difference to the room temperature.
    But if I was doing it now, I would definitely opt for the cellotex/kingspan method.
    Out of interest koolpc , what type of screws are used on these boards. We have circa 1900 brick walls that are a nightmare to drill into.
     
  8. koolpc

    koolpc Super Member

  9. koolpc

    koolpc Super Member

  10. winterdiy

    winterdiy Member

    Thanks koolpc. I see it says 5mm pilot holes for bricks. These type of fixings don't seem to need wall plugs, but TBH, I learnt diy from my dad and he always insists on wall plugs for any type/size of screw.
     
  11. FatHands

    FatHands Well-Known Member

    @koolpc nice bit of frame work mate...
    Did you measure the size and make the frame on the floor and offer up, or did you get the outside square in and then make the verticals and horizontals in afterwards? Reason I ask is sometimes not enough height in the room to lift the frame up. Also what fixings did you use to hold it to the exterior wall pal?
     
  12. koolpc

    koolpc Super Member

    These screws are meant to be used with no plugs. I have used bolts etc into concrete with no plugs. Super duper strong!
     
    FatHands likes this.
  13. koolpc

    koolpc Super Member

    I didn't do the frame on the floor. And, to be honest, i didn't bother about getting the outside square as the walls were pretty good. I was more concerned about putting the battens up where each plasterboard edge rested. They were very tall walls, 3mtr! I did use ordinary wall plugs and screws to fix the battens. If i were doing it again i would use screws that didn't need plugs but this time i am going for Insulated Plasterboard.

    Thanks
     
  14. koolpc

    koolpc Super Member

    Is it better to lift up the row of laminate flooring nearest the wall before i put the new insulated PBs up? Or just leave then there?

    Where would you recommend to buy the Celotex 50mm Insulated PB's from and how many bags of adhesive for 5 boards guys as my maths is not goo, oh, and 'what' adhesive, brand etc is the best? Ta
     
  15. Dr Bodgit

    Dr Bodgit Super Member

    Is the laminate glued? If not and you can re-lay it up to the new stud wall then I'd do that. Probably won't do any harm if its left though.

    I got my Quinn Therm from https://www.condell-ltd.com/ a bit far from you but they may deliver, were the best prices by a long way. Gives you an idea on price anyways, their 60+12.5mm PL4000 is £49/sheet.

    No idea on adhesive sorry.
     
  16. Whitling2k

    Whitling2k Member

    cheers guys - all food for thought.

    I'm sort of tempted to stick to the 47mm timber frame and rockwool on the main walled area, and the PL4000 on the inside of the window openings.... no new skills to learn there so can just crack on. But I'l speak to my plasterer about dot-n-dabbing the whole wall in PL4000; I'm not that confident with dot-n-dab compared to my joinery - so need to factor in extra cost and wait there which might offset the additional cost of the timber frame.

    Also, with any dot/dab, I'd need to prep the wall first. There is a LOT of old paint which was painted directly onto the plaster, so is peeling off, or badly attached wall paper - again, some of which is falling off.

    Seems a lot of prep to me, whereas just screwing a frame over the top will mean I can pretend I never saw it... <-- a bodge to far?

    cheers

    whitling2k
     
  17. BMC2000

    BMC2000 Screwfix Select

    Ere we go again...
     
    Joe95 likes this.
  18. koolpc

    koolpc Super Member

    Stick to whats best for you. Batten method works. Whichever method you employ will work. Some like DA go on and on about stats etc when in real life you wont notice or see any difference between the 2.
     
    Joe95 likes this.
  19. Joe95

    Joe95 Screwfix Select

    Kools is right, choose the method that you would prefer. Both me and Kools are batten out fans, but then you have the likes of Dev and BMC, who are dot and dab fans:rolleyes:

    Most certainly not, i prefer battening as it is less likely to go **** up, as dot and dab can very easily go without prior experience or knowledge.

    One could argue that dot and dab is more of a bodge, but i wont go into that....:p
     
    koolpc likes this.
  20. Dr Bodgit

    Dr Bodgit Super Member

    Dot n dab should always be supplemented by mechanical fixing but I would see two disadvantages with this method:
    - its generally more expensive than batten, PL4000 is about 3 times the price of standard PIR insulation
    - its tricky getting everything level.

    That said, you'll get some cold bridging with battens although it won't make much difference.

    I conclusion I would say insulated plasterboard gives the best result IF its properly applied but is more expensive and time consuming.

    See...I'm not married to an ideology, just weigh up the evidence ;)
     
    Deleted member 33931 likes this.

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