Bay window dispute

Discussion in 'Other Trades Talk' started by Boyo99, Jan 4, 2016.

  1. Boyo99

    Boyo99 New Member

    Wondering if anyone has a view on a bay window dispute. Windows have been fitted but are not wide enough and bay poles sat too far back under head plate. Turns out first floor bay sits further out than ground floor bay, resulting in above mentioned issues. Question is, should the miss-alignment of bays have been picked up in survey? Any thoughts would be greatly received. Ta.
     
  2. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    That's what surveys are for, if you've asked for survey, supply and fit then it's their fault.
     
  3. Boyo99

    Boyo99 New Member

    I agree mate. Pity they don't. Ball ache
     
  4. More info Boyo.

    Is this a recent job? Or a recent house purchase?

    When you say 'the poles are too far back for the head plate', by how much?

    Any chance of a photie?
     
  5. Boyo99

    Boyo99 New Member

    Hello mate. Yes very recent. I'll try and add a photo later. Basically the internal profiles of the windows aren't flush to the head, and the bay poles in places don't fully sit under the head either. The contractor has said that this has happened as the house is built incorrectly as the upstairs bay sits further forward than downstairs, and the survey wouldn't have identified this.
    My argument is that as part of the survey, they're supposed to check the previous support was adequate. There was clear cracking in the render outside which should have raised questions as to why the bay was dropping. The reason for this was because the previous installation was wrong too.
     
  6. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    Have you paid any money? :(
     
  7. Boyo99

    Boyo99 New Member

    Hi there. No, only deposit so far, and tbh I'm close to telling them to do one and use someone else instead
     
  8. Ghost-1

    Ghost-1 Active Member

    So they measured/surveyed wrong, Windows made, and now they are trying to get out of it because THEY cocked up.
     
  9. Boyo99

    Boyo99 New Member

    They've told me that they checked with a fenestration expert, and there is no way they could have identified that there was an issue with the bay construction, i.e. the head plate is not aligned with the cill during the survey.
    I've been checking online and in FENSA compliance docs etc, but I can't find anything that says explicitly that they should have checked this. But, FENSA do say they should have confirmed the previous support was sufficient, which it couldn't have been due to the defect. What is even more irritating is that I noticed the problem, whereas they were happy to self certify it was all good.
    I just wanted to gauge opinion on here whether I'm being unreasonable in my expectation of a survey, or whether they should have picked it up. Most people I've spoken to say the latter. We'll prob end up in court, so checking for peace of mind really.
     
  10. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    Did they copy what was there before but what was there before was wrong?
     
  11. Boyo99

    Boyo99 New Member

    Yes mate, that's pretty much it in a nutshell
     
  12. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    Unless you pointed out to them that the initial install was wrong and you wanted it rectifying I would have thought you would have a problem claiming.
     
  13. Boyo99

    Boyo99 New Member

    Mmm, but surely employing a professional person to do a specialised job should entail more than just measuring the old windows, otherwise I would have done it myself and saved £££. The bay is load bearing, so I still think they should have checked how it was supported first . It's like asking someone to do building work, and they assume the footings are deep enough, or are in the right place.
     
  14. Hmmm, not quite sure what's going on here.

    Boyo, is it that the window was like this before these guys started the job, with the headplate out of alignment with the lower supports? And that these guys only realised this - could only have realised this - when they ripped the old window out?

    If so, not sure they are liable, either morally or legally. I bet it'll be in their T&Cs - which you would have signed when handing over the deposit - that they cannot be held liable for unforeseen situations like unsound structures, and may have to charge extra to cover these unanticipated costs.

    Mind you, in such a case they should have immediately called you over and pointed this out.


    Can you explain the full circumstances here? Or else we are chust shooting in the dark.
     
  15. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    This is something that happened to me last year when having windows fitted and installed by an installer, 12 months of stress.

    Was any contract signed when making the order, I assume you have paid out 35% (around) as a deposit?

    A solicitor can become very expensive.

    What does the terms of the agreement mention?
     
  16. Boyo99

    Boyo99 New Member

    Sorry, I probably should have provided more details, but it's so painful typing on the phone! Re the previous post, your summary is correct, but there were issues that we think should have prompted a more thorough inspection during the survey . The first floor bay had large cracks at the edges of the cill externally and showing signs of dropping , and internally the spreader plates for the bay poles were visible past the the edge of the plasterboard in the bay where it meets the head. (I'm refurbishing the house so have replaced lath and plasters ceiling in bay with boards ).
    Tbh, I didn't know anything about windows before so the alarm bells didn't ring, but now it seems pretty obvious the previous installation was wrong. A bit miffed I missed it, but surely the surveyor should pick these things up?....or am I on a hiding to nothing?
     
  17. Jitender

    Jitender Screwfix Select

    I'm just had a quick look through my contracted and it does mention that the company will not be liable for any structural defects or design faults that could have been concealed during the survey. As well as many of claused, they really do try and protect themselves for all situations.

    Is it just the one window that you have had installed or is there more?
     
  18. Boyo99

    Boyo99 New Member

    Thanks Jitender. The windows were stripped back to brickwork when the survey was done, so it wasn't concealed. But I don't have any photos to prove this, only photos prior to the installation.

    Food for thought anyway.
     
  19. Thanks for the explanation.

    Yes, one would like to think that such visible evidence would have been picked up on by the surveyor if he's worth his salt.

    So, what happened then? They removed the old windows, realised the less-than-ideal situation, but carried on regardless?

    If so, then I reckon they're stuffed. If the situation before was genuinely unsatisfactory - there were structural issues showing themselves - and the situation with the new windows is no better, they they surely should not have fitted these windows. Full stop.

    What has now happened? They did fit the new windows? And what is the actual problem - who has 'worked out' or decided that the supports are wrong?

    Is it worse than before, or chust as bad?
     

  20. Yep, it sounds like one of those grey areas - one person's word against another. Shame you don't have photos which might have shown the obvious issues.

    Mind you, if you could rustle up some witnesses (visitors), ideally not close family - perhaps some neighbs or work colleagues who popped in to see the renovation - then their word (that the window surrounds were stripped back to bare brick) might be enough to suggest that the surveyor was 'incompetent'.

    What is the current situation with the windows? (I've also asked in my previous post - no need to answer twice ;) )
     

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