Hi. I live in a new-build, shared ownership flat (7 years old). I was the first person to move in. Never experienced any unusual plumbing noises until April this year when my new neighbours moved into flat upstairs. The flat had been vacant for 6 months prior to neighbours moving in. The communal waste pipe in my kitchen is boxed in so not accessible. It began making dripping noises after I turned the hot water off in the kitchen sink. No sign of leak. Noise became louder and heavier after neighbours upstairs used their washing machine, dishwasher and hot water - combination of loud, furious popping and thumping noise. I called my own plumber in and he checked water pressure and said this was fine and said the problem was definitely the communal waste pipe which he could not access. I have been suffering the noise on a daily basis since April. Sometimes I hear it in the bathroom but the noise is particularly loud and constant in the kitchen. The noise can appear at any time even if I have not used the hot water in my kitchen so I know it it coming from upstairs. It has been very difficult to get Housing Association to fix issue (they are responsible for structural/communal issues). The waste pipe was jet sprayed from roof to clear any possible clog but this has not helped. Housing Association have suggested thermal expansion and contraction rather than water hammer. However would this have not been evident when I first moved in? The noise has only appeared from April this year when neighbours moved in. A coincidence? My upstairs neighbours are also experiencing some noise but not to the same degree as me and they don't have anyone living above them at the moment. My neighbour downstairs has had some noise but nothing too loud. It just seems to me suffering it the most. The noise can range from air-popping sounds to clicking/snapping to thuds like someone punching the wall from the other side. Sorry for long, rambling post but just trying to provide as much accurate detail as possible. Any advice/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Most likely pipe is a tight fit somewhere, & thermal expansion from hot water will cause it to squeak, knock, bang, etc.
One of these hellish, potentially hard-to-diagnose and even harder-to-resolve types... When you say 'communal waste', I presume you mean a 4" soil pipe which is coming vertically down through your (and other) flat and is boxed in inside an obvious cover? If there is such a 'boxed-in' column, then good chance it also houses the rising main pipe going to the flats above yours, so the issue could be from that rather than the waste. Or a combination of both... It's good that others also suffer from these noises, tho' obviously not to the same degree as you - it really does help that it isn't a case of 'only you can hear it'! Have the others been inside your flat to listen? And do they acknowledge that it's louder and intrusive? If so, then I guess it ain't up to you to try and diagnose the cause, but to just force the home-owner/builder to sort it under the normal building warranty. Not sure how easy this is to do... Do you have your own building's insurance (presumably not - it's done communally?). Do you know if it has legal protection included for the users? What about your contents insurance - do you have legal protection included in that? I suspect you need proper advice on this on how to proceed - phone up the LP if you have it. Failing that, try your local Cit Advice Bure. If this noise is genuinely intrusive and spoiling your enjoyment of your home, then you surely have a valid case?
If you have a boxed in pipe, which you can access, you could always lag it with fibreglass insulation, should reduce some noise.
Hi. Many thanks for the responses received so far. It is a soil pipe/waste stack shared by 4 flats which comes down vertically and is completely boxed in the corner of the kitchen next to the sink with no access at all. Housing Association have visited and I have also sent them recordings of the noise. They seem pretty sure that it is thermal expansion and contraction. However I am still waiting to hear what they are going to do about it and more importantly when. They did suggest installing anti-knocking valves which I guess would involve cutting into the wall in my kitchen which I don't mind as long as it works but they will not confirm if this is what they intend to do or not. The noise has been going on for months and has definitely affected my life. The noise is unbearably intrusive especially as I lived in relative peace and quiet for the last 7 years. Unfortunately Building insurance (communal) won't deal with fixing the actual fault. My neighbours know about the noise in my flat but have said it isn't as loud in their flats. The neighbours upstairs experienced some noise as soon as they moved in and my neighbour downstairs has started hearing the noise in their flat over the last several months and they have been living in their property for 7 years. It's certainly very loud in my flat when the neighbours upstairs use their washing machine, dishwasher. I always thought that expansion/contraction would be obvious/apparent from the moment you move in. I haven't heard anything for 7 years and I was the first person to move in. This only started in April this year when neighbours moved in upstairs after the flat had been empty for 6 months - I'm assuming with water supply turned off in that time. Is it possible for the soil/waste pipe to all of a sudden start hitting against the timber frame or joist that it is fixed to? My initial thoughts were perhaps this is water hammer caused by air being trapped in the pipe from the upstairs flat being empty for so long? Does anyone think that this might be a possibility or is contributing towards the problem? Can water hammer cause dripping/clicking/thumping noises? Sometimes its a loud singlular hollow thud on its own. Has anyone had any experience of using anti knocking valves? Is this the same as a water hammer arrestor? How does fibreglass insulation work? Is this something that would need to be wrapped around the pipe itself? Has anyone else been in a similar situation living in a flat with this kind of noise and successfully resolving the problem?
I didn't mean for your insurance to actually sort the issue, but if any of your insurances has 'legal protection' then you could call on them for advice and help you pursue a legal case if it came to it. Trapped air? Unlikely - because it's water under mains pressure. Pipe hammer? Very possibly. See these recordings you made, could you put them on YouTube or similar so's we can hear? Anyhoo, it sounds as tho' they are prepared to actually sort it, and - I agree with you - let them do whatever it takes even if it's disruptive and messy; they will put it all back for you in the end. Quality of life - in your own home especially - is of huge importance. Keep us posted on this, please.
Hi, I have come across this problem before, and the reason was............. When the sink/ bath/ basin waste was installed in your flat, the actuall pipe was pushed too far in the waste boss, buy about 2 inches, this caused the symptoms you discribe . While the flat was empty no problem, when upstairs is in use, all sorts of debri would collect on the pipe, Then any dripping you hear is from the debri on th pipe It's not too difficult to put right. A camera down the vent pipe will "prove" the problem, Regards Peter
It was initially suggested that the pipe might be clogged up with debris so Housing Association arranged for pipe to be jet sprayed from the roof but the noise has still persisted. I have been chasing Housing Association for a while now to find out what is going on with the repairs and when it will start. The person who visited my flat and suggested anti knocking valves is still waiting to hear from their boss to find out what will happen but until then I won't know anything. I have uploaded 2 videos on YouTube so you can hear the noise: Please let me know what you think. Many thanks.
Hi In my view, if it's possible to gain access to the kitchen waste pipe, where it joins the vertical soil pipe, and try to remove the kitchen 1 1/2 pipe from the soil pipe, it may be that it's causing the problem, It would be best to do this work while the noise is occurring, and the issue may be obvious? It may be the bath waste? Inserted too far in the soil pipe, To me it sounds like a partial blockage of some sort. Regards Peter
They both sound like expansion noises. A plastic pipe is a tight fit in a hole - probably timber - or is pressed too tightly up against it. As it expands/contracts with heat, it moves a very small amount in 'stutters' (place your palm very firmly down on your table and try and slide it away from you - it won't slide smoothly, but go in 'jumps'!) That noise is unacceptable - it would drive most people nuts . If it's definitely happening when other people are using their water systems (ie - it's not when you drain your sink, for example) then chust let the powers get on with sorting it.
Thank you so much for your advice. I am also experiencing the tapping/dripping noise after the hot water has drained from my kitchen sink. The noise is significantly louder when upstairs neighbours use their water system as shown in both videos. I don't know if the problem with the pipe was always bound to happen or if something has happened over the last 12 months to cause the pipe to start reacting like this. My neighbours have the noise as well but certainly not to the same extent as me. Do you think installing anti-knocking valves will get rid of the noise? I have been tirelessly chasing the Housing Association for the last 5 months to get this sorted but I am still yet to find out exactly what they are going to do which is just making this situation even more frustrating
I don't know what an 'anti knocking valve' is (anti-hammer?), but if it's due to thermal expansion - which it sounds like - then no valve will sort it. It needs 'loosening' from whatever it's sticking against. I also suspect there's no sound insulation around the pipe, so any sound generated is free to cause annoyance.
These are certainly thermal expansion and contraction noises. When the pipe changes temperature suddenly it's expanding and contracting and rubbing against something that's pressing against it. I think the reason you didn't hear them before is that no one above you was putting hot water in to the pipe. A joist or floorboard - something that is pressing fairly hard against it. You do need to get a camera in there and investigate, particularly around the ceiling area where it seems most likely that its pressing against something.
Hi. Thank you for your message. I have desperately been chasing the Housing Association for the last couple of months to get this sorted. Because it's a communal pipe boxed in behind a wall and shared by several other flats I am completely reliant on the Housing Association to deal with this. When you mention camera do you mean something like a thermal imaging camera? I have no idea if they have or are willing to use a camera to carry out a thorough investigation but I will definitely ask them. The flat above me had always been occupied from 2009 until October 2015 and there was never any noise when the neighbours used their hot water. The flat became vacant in Oct 2015 until April this year which is when the new neighbours moved in and that is when I first began to hear the noise. Do you think that the sudden surge of hot water used by the new neighbours on a pipe that had been 'out of action' for 6 months could have caused it to expand so greatly to the extent that it practically knocked itself against the joist?
Hi @Sue-Bon, did you ever manage to get this sorted? I live in a block of flats and sounds to me like I might have the same issue! Thanks
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