Hi, A customer had me look at new internal double doors she recently had fitted by a carpenter that had done a less then satisfactory job, and brought me in to put it right but just wanted some advice on the best way to go about it, minimising cost & labour as the customer has already paid over the odds on material & previous carpenters labour. So the carpenter had the customer buy all materials which he dissmissed or had the customer buy different due to it being wrong or not to the carpenters liking for example the customer bought 3 separate door lining sets for just one frame, two different sets of hinges etc. So the carpenter has installed a frame in the opening which is 30ish mm too narrow for the width of the wall, frame not been installed plumb, level or in wind, but somehow managed to hang the doors reasonable well :O that is if you didn't care for consistent margins between the door and the frame, but as long as it swings open and don't bind its okay right!!! (shocking) not to mention being solid oak with glass panels being hung on just two small hinges instead of 3 nice substantial ones, oh and architrave that was just ripped down and fixed on frame to bring it flush, protruding or just shallow of the wall! So with the frame usually you'd install a frame thats a pretty close size to the width of the wall but since this frame is 30mm smaller then the width of the wall i suggested i get some oak scribed to the wall to give a margin around the frame (as you do for architrave) and taper it so it would finish flush to the face of the wall then add the architrave as you normally would expect it be an extra step (another margin) then compared to a conventional door, but i'd have to do this both sides of the frame. I was thinking instead of doing to both sides would it be easier and more cost effective from a standpoint of labour and material that i re position the frame so its flush with one side of the wall, plumb, level and in wind and just build out the frame on the other side or would it look better to keep the frame centre of the wall, getting plumb, level etc and do both sides the same so it all look symmetrical?
you are in the same place as the previous carpenter ie you need to make the best of a poorly designed idea. Also it just might be that he found he could only fix in that position, which you won't know until you deconstruct. So you need to talk a bit more with the customer before getting into it. I'd be inclined to move the hinge side to be flush with the wall, so that the architrave is as it should be, and the door opens as it should. On t'other side you can either pack out with more oak to be flush with wall, and architrave as it should be. Or trim with oak beading and finish the corner as a wall with skirting returning to the door lining.
Needs to come out and start again. Try save doors but new linings I guess. Your not doing yourself or the customer any favours by trying to put that right on the cheep. Been there done that! You will end up in trouble then someone else following you In to correct it. Tell them what needs to be done to correct it and price up for your time plus material.
Wise words. Jobs like that, always ends up snowballing in major work to correct the faults. Whole lot needs to come out and start again.
My soles would be on fire running away from it as fast as I could. The end result will be your work and unless you rip it all out a start afresh, you will be the one looked down upon for shoddy work.
I'm with the rest of the guys, leave it well alone, they're not going to want to pay you a days wage to try to sort it out, if anything they're going to take their frustrations and disappointment out on you. Tell them politely that although you sympathize, you're not in the business of fixing other tradesmens bodges, and you only guarantee your own work from start to finish, and that it's a shame they didn't consider you for the job first.
Does your customer expects these doors to open fully and flush back against the walls? If so, they'll need parliament hinges. Why did the customer 'accept' that shoddy work? If it genuinely isn't plum or square, then these are fundamental errors and she should be requiring them to put it right - or else suing them for the cost.
Hmm, not quite, not always possible to fit a lining perfect, the plumbness and squareness(sic) isn't that important provided everything looks pleasing to the eye, what is important are the facts that the lining doesn't cover the full width of the reveal, the lining(and doors) are out of wind and the margins of tolerance around the doors are all over the shop apparently. Whilst the last two are fixable, the most important one isn't unfortunately. If you plant timber on the lining it's going to stick out like a sore thumb, the best bet is to plant on the hinge side and recut the hinge recesses, that way the add-on is hidden by the door when closed, but unfortunately visible when the door is opened.
Yes, of course the wall could be out of plumb. My point is that the doors - and actual door frame - should be plumb and square.
Thanks for all your replies guys, but the customer is a important customer to me so i'll will be taking on the job to make good of what's there. Thinking about it, i will bring the frame out flush to the wall on the hinge side, and finished it off as it should. Scribe a strip of oak on the other side so i'll have around 8mm margin or whatever will look good and also scribed flush to the wall, then architrave as normal. I wouldn't be able to just put beading in there like quadrant as it be tapering about an inch to the top of one jamb to basically nothing by the time it reaches the bottom of the jamb. I can't touch the skirting neither as thats been bodged too so wouldn't be able to return it into the lining. if anything i need to make the skirting shorter so have decided to add plinth blocks. I can then scribe the skirting (which he didn't) to the internal corner and then run the skirting into the plinth block. Plus for normal single doors i would of understood that you may not get the lining perfect, but for double doors i've always thought it be absolutely necessary to the lining right and as accurate as possible, the only thing you could get away with is it not being plumb slightly, tipping into or out of the opening so you could tweak it to make it good by eye, but walls should never be that much its needed. Other then that everything else most definitely needs to be right.
It's important to get any lining as correct as possible, but with doubles the most important thing is to make sure it's in wind, everything else you can get over. Not being picky but if she's that important a customer then she should have gone to you in the first place, just be careful and make sure you don't get undeserved grief.
Ah okay, Yes they did come to me first but i had to turn them away for a fortnight until i could get there, They recently had the room re plastered and the painter booked for a week later so just wanted to get it all done so they decided to go with someone else. When i did look at the job they did say they would of wished they waited.
Forums
Facebook
Twitter
You Tube
Instagram
Shop