Extending Wiring behind Plug Socket

Same reason you remain convinced a 1mm smoke ctt would not comply with the regs if it has only smokes on it yet does if someone slapped a light on it. I guess.

 

Odd that.
In the real world, there is very rarely a socket at the mid point of a RFC.
In the real world, RFCs are frequently unbalanced.
Sen thinks we should ignore all that text book stuff and deal with the real world.

 

If it a/c and alternating isn't it balancing itself?

 

It is a fact that the Wiring Regulations do not permit circuits other than lighting circuits to be wired in 1mm^2 conductors. I never said that one light on it would be appropriate - I said that you could make that argument if you so wished. I stated that I believed that a lighting circuit should be substantially for lighting, although may contain doorbells, smoke detectors, extractor fans etc.

If you cannot understand this then you are too * to understand the Wiring Regulations, as it is written there in black and white.

 

No. The cable will still carry more current in one direction.

 

Which one?

 

The first thing to try is to pull the wires and see whether there is any slack in the cable. Usually you can pull enough to make the wire long enough to terminate. 30A connector block would be acceptable as would crimps. Also latest technology Wago connectors are useful.

 

I answered this a while ago, why is everyone banging on about balancing loads on ring finals?

Whats the relevance to the original question, no doubt the OP has gone and hung him self out of boredom!

Just use the Red 30A rated Ideal (wago type) push fits, life is too short.

 

Here is what I sent to the IEE

Hello, I was wondering if you could help me with something.

In table 52.3 of bs7671 it states that the minimum size of cable to be used on "power circuits" is 1.5mm2. I'm looking for guidance on what a "power circuit" is; for example, a smoke alarm circuit could be considered a "power circuit" yet to wire it in 1.5mm2 would be some what onerous as 1mm2 cable would do just as well with no loss of safety or compliance with BS7671 excluding table 52.3. It would also be cheaper for the client (admittedly not by a vast amount) and would also use less copper so would be slightly more environmentally friendly. I'm sure there are other examples where continued use of 1mm2 would be more than satisfactory.

And the response

Hello Ben,

Thanks for your e-mail. There is no specific definition of a power circuit, but I would suggest that it’s anything other than a lighting circuit ie anything 16A or above, and as such a 1.5 sq mm cable would be the minimum size allowable. If you are looking at a smoke alarm they are usually fed from a lighting circuit or a separate 6A mcb so 1.0 sq mm cable would be OK. Generally the idea of a lighting or power circuit category is not good and a circuit should just be designed to supply its load.

In Europe 1.5 sq mm is the minimum cable size allowed, 1.0 sq mm is a UK “special”!

@Risteard- 2 things. Please don't call me stupid and illiterate. Pm if you want the proof this is from the IEE.

 

. . ."tumble-weed rolls across the screen. . . . . ."

 

It states that a smoke alarm is generally fed from a lighting circuit, which is true.

You however were referring to when it isn't. So either you are illiterate or just wasting my time.

 

Your argument is that a anything other than a lighting ctt should be wired in a min of 1.5mm as it would not be not a lighting ctt. The IEE guy is saying other wise. Read the below carefully.

If you are looking at a smoke alarm they are usually fed from a lighting circuit or a separate 6A mcb so 1.0 sq mm cable would be OK.

He also states that There is no specific definition of a power circuit. Again your argument is based on the fact that anything other than a lighting ctt can only be classified as a power ctt. Which is not what the IEE guy is saying.

So I would suggest you stop trying to back peddle and learn to read yourself before you go shooting your mouth off telling me I can't.

 

How is saying that smoke alarms are usually connected to a lighting circuit referring to power circuits rather than lighting circuits?

If they are NOT CONNECTED TO THE BLOODY LIGHTING CIRCUIT then 1.5mm^2 is required. How the bloody hell does that confuse you?

I clearly, clearly, clearly stated that smoke alarms were fine in 1mm^2 WHEN, AND ONLY WHEN, CONNECTED TO A LIGHTING CIRCUIT. So the IET response agrees with me.

 

Who cares, I wired an alarm panel from the non RCD side of a board yesterday in 1mm on a 6A breaker. Doubt I will be going to prison any time soon.

Coloumb, I think you need to make the bold a bit bigger.

 

That's not what he is saying though is it?

Re-read this bit until it hits you in the face!

If you are looking at a smoke alarm they are usually fed from a lighting circuit or a separate 6A mcb so 1.0 sq mm cable would be OK.

or a separate 6A mcb (ie a seperate ctt WITH NO LIGHTS, JUST SMOKES) so 1.0 sq mm cable would be OK.

The guy from the IEE DOES NOT AGREE WITH YOU. READ IT!

 

Who cares what he said? He is offering an opinion, which holds no basis beyond that.

The requirements are stated in the IET Wiring Regulations - and the opinion of someone in the IET Technical Helpline or whatever is just that. In the same way, Guidance Notes documents are an opinion.

The Regulations are the Regulations, which state clearly that the minimum cross-sectional area other than for lighting circuits is 1.5mm^2 - end of story and not debateable.

So you are wrong and will always be wrong, and I have no interest discussing this further with you. I frankly do not give a damn what you decide to do.

 

Mate- the reply was from one of the members who writes the f-ing regs. I can only conclude, and I don't mean this in an insulating way, that you must have Asperger syndrome or something like it. Restricted and repetitive interests and behavior is worth a look.

 

I used 16a connectors blocks the other day. Far too short and no space for WAGO. Needed extending to move the socket up higher as on the skirting and unable to even get a plug in it. A previous sparky had been a week earlier and used some cheap TEMU WAGOS for some reason in the space and 1 N 1 E had come loose. Box also
came off the wall. Big *** holes for the size of the plugs.
Connectors were the best option and in this case and solid.

would normally use WAGO these days, but good to carry blocks.

 

I emember reading this thread eight years ago.
Very Entertaining.

 

Still miss unphased. Good bloke he was.